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moderated Wiki link color is hard to see - usability #bug


Jason Diceman
 

Depending on monitor contrast levels, it can be very difficult to see the difference between grey links and normal text in the wiki.

In terms of accessibility, like for users with reduced vision, this is a real problem that could be easily fixed with higher contrast color in the CSS.   

See WCAG 2.0 and Link Colors for best practice.

Please fix :-)


Duane
 

On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:53 PM, Jason Diceman wrote:
this is a real problem that could be easily fixed with higher contrast color in the CSS.
Based on some quick research, modern browsers have a setting to override page settings for Visited and Unvisited links, so anything used on a site such as Groups.io is only a suggested default.  If someone is using those settings in their browser, changes made here wouldn't apply anyway.  I believe this #bug should be a #suggestion, if anything.

Duane


 

I'd imagine contrast needs to be worked on in general, not just the wiki page. But yes, this should be fixed. Contrast in general.


Jason Diceman
 

To add 

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C is an international community that develops open standards to ensure the long-term growth of the Web) says:

Use a contrast ratio of 3:1 with surrounding text and providing additional visual cues on focus for links or controls where color alone is used to identify them

See recommended standards: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G183.html

Groups.io is fantastic in many ways. This would make it easier to use for more people.


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 12:15 PM, Duane wrote:
Based on some quick research, modern browsers have a setting to override page settings for Visited and Unvisited links, so anything used on a site such as Groups.io is only a suggested default.
I  changed the Visited / Unvisited colours in my browser (FF) and as far as I could see it made no difference whatsoever to the appearance of links within Groups.io.

As a rule this is not something that bothers me on Groups.io but I can see Jason's point. Another site I regularly use has links that change from blue to an unmistakable red once visited.

Chris


Jason Diceman
 

To clarify, it's not that the 'visited' status needs to be featured. It's just a matter that text links should always be obvious and easy to visually scan for.  Even for people with low vision or crappy monitors, without having to adjust their browse settings. 


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 05:19 PM, Jason Diceman wrote:
It's just a matter that text links should always be obvious and easy to visually scan for
A valid point given the patently obvious existence of links in emails.

Chris


 

It's almost as if accessible design can help everybody, even sighted folk. 🤔. It utterly baffles me how non disabled developers haven't grasped this yet. Mark actually cares, but he's one of the few that do.

Sure, some small navigational things can be done to make navigating threads easier for us screen reader peeps, but this contrast bug should be fixed across the whole website, not just the mentioned page. It should be a priority, and a bug, not a feature request.

Mark has done a great job wit accessible design so far.

Imagine you're using the app, for example, the upcoming app, and the son is in your eyes or something. Temporary blindness is a thing.

By the way, the upcoming app should be accessible too, contrast wise.


Duane
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 10:56 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I  changed the Visited / Unvisited colours in my browser (FF) and as far as I could see it made no difference whatsoever to the appearance of links within Groups.io.
Just below the color settings is an option box in FF.  By default, it selects "Only with High Contrast themes.", so I see the first attachment (Normal).  By choosing "Always", I see the second (Contrast).

Duane


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 06:23 PM, Duane wrote:
By choosing "Always", I see the second (Contrast).
Now that really does make a difference!

In several places... inc. the composition box!

I think I like that, and I don't have a visual impairment.

Chris


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 07:20 PM, I wrote:
I think I like that,

On second thoughts.. uh - oh.

That changes too much. It completely changes the appearance of (say) the NMM flag in the members list. With a "normal" setting the flag is white letters on a blue background; with "Always" set it appears as a blue letter on white. So if I was to describe something to look for based on the "normal" setting to someone with the "Always" setting they will not see what I describe. Another example is something like a screenshot based on a normal setting; it will appear normal irrespective of the viewer's browser setting, but what they will see if they go to the subject of the screenshot will be different if they have Always set in their own browser..

Confusion all round...

Chris


Duane
 

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 11:19 AM, Jason Diceman wrote:
It's just a matter that text links should always be obvious
According to my testing on the WCAG site, the black (333) text on white background has a contrast of 12.63:1 and the unvisited link (337ab7) has a contrast of 4.55:1, both above the minimum of 4.5:1 recommended.  The visited gray/grey (787878) is just below minimum at 4.41:1.  I'm not sure how much of this is from the site and how much is from my browser.

Duane
PS  Using the Always setting in FF is much more visible, but seems a bit 'harsh' when viewed for any length of time.  Probably why the default colors are used.


Jason Diceman
 

Any news on this simple little CSS fix? 


Duane
 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:33 PM, Jason Diceman wrote:
Any news on this simple little CSS fix?
As far as I can see, no one has determined that it's simple.  One little change can lead to other problems, as Chris noted when he tried the FF trick, so I'd want to be absolutely sure everything else still 'works' properly before making a change.

Duane


 

The fact that browser trick sighted people did, above, means the contrast on the website needs to be fixed.

From WCAG...

Use a contrast ratio of 3:1 with surrounding text and providing additional visual cues on focus for links or controls where color alone is used to identify them.

It always confuses me why sighted people don't want to make changes that would benefit them, too. I mean, what if your monitor is malfunctioning and the poor contrast keeps you from using a site because of your monitor?

At some point, the whole contrast should be looked at. Create a ticket by emailing support@groups.io about the wiki links, for now.


Duane
 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 01:45 PM, Robert Kingett wrote:
The fact that browser trick sighted people did, above, means the contrast on the website needs to be fixed.
Not for me.  I prefer the existing colors.  I believe Chris did too after he realized the 'trick' broke some other things.

Duane