moderated When a file is deleted, show its former location in Activity log and Moderator notification #suggestion


Andy
 

When someone deletes a File in a group, a notification is sent to Moderators and an entry is added to the Activity log.  But both of these show only the filename, without saying what Folder it was deleted from.

I find this confusing because it always makes me think the file was deleted from the top directory.  Even if I don't make that mistake, there might have been more than one file with the same filename, and it would help to know which one was deleted.

If it's not a problem, I suggest adding the name of the Folder, or a link to the Folder, where the file was deleted.

Andy


Andy
 

The other problem I am having (related to this one) is that Moderators do not get notices for all actions on Files.  I should make this a separate topic (which I might end up doing), but for now I'm writing it as a reply.

According to the Activity log, earlier today a group member uploaded five files, added two file folders, deleted four files, and deleted one folder.  I got messages in my emails about seven of these actions, but NO messages about the other five.  Why not?

Does groups.io decide not to notify Moderators about some actions if a counter-action happens within some amount of time?  Why will I get a notice that a file was deleted, but no notice that the same file was uploaded?

Also - as Moderator, it would help if the email notification said what time an action happened.  I can't use the timestamp of the email message because they are sometimes listed in batch (5 actions listed in one email message even though the actions were spread out over 15+ minutes).  Not helpful.

But the most important thing to me is to know if an action happened.  If a file was uploaded, there should be a email notification about it.  Currently, there might not be.  If a file was deleted, there had better be an email notification about it.  Can we please make that happen?

My group settings are set to be notified by email when a folder is modified or a file is uploaded.  That setting is not honored.

If email notifications do not reflect the actions in a group, then what's the point of email notifications?

Thanks,
Andy


Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 05:46:11 -0800, "Andy" <AI.egrps+io@gmail.com> wrote:

If a file was deleted, there had better be an email notification about it. Can we please make that happen?

My group settings are set to be notified by email when a folder is modified or a file is uploaded. That setting is not honored.

If email notifications do not reflect the actions in a group, then what's the point of email notifications?

I don't know if this should be reported as a bug but whatever the problem, I
believe it should be addressed.


Donald



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Duane
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 07:46 AM, Andy wrote:
According to the Activity log, earlier today a group member uploaded five files, added two file folders, deleted four files, and deleted one folder.  I got messages in my emails about seven of these actions, but NO messages about the other five.  Why not?
You didn't say exactly what order these were performed, but I don't think it should make any difference.  I did a test by creating 2 folders, adding 5 files to one of them, deleting 4 of the files, and deleting the unused folder.  The notification I received had all 12 actions shown.  If the actions had been spaced out over a longer period of time, I should have gotten multiple notifications.  Maybe you received other notifications that you didn't notice?

Duane


Andy
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:05 AM, Duane wrote:
...  Maybe you received other notifications that you didn't notice?

No.  All these actions happened since 6 hours ago.  I received other notifications about new subscribers, and about a new message needing approval, and one notice about a co-moderator moving one of the folders, but nothing else about the files.

The first email notification I received today listed the deleted file first, but has nothing showing that the file was uploaded.  The Activity log does have that.  I think the same email notification also lists the creation of the folder into which the file had been uploaded.  So,
  • it shows the folder being created,
  • it doesn't show the file being uploaded into that folder,
  • it does show the file being deleted from that folder.

It looks as if Groups.io decides it does not need to tell me that the file was uploaded, because it was deleted before sending an email notification about it.

Andy


Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:31 AM, Andy wrote:
It looks as if Groups.io decides it does not need to tell me that the file was uploaded, because it was deleted before sending an email notification about it.
Hmm. Never encountered that one.

Notifications contain a link to the file. If you've already deleted it, I'm thinking that failing to send a link to a nonexistent file kinda makes sense.

Regards,
Bruce


Andy
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:44 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Notifications contain a link to the file. If you've already deleted it, I'm thinking that failing to send a link to a nonexistent file kinda makes sense.

Notifications never contain a link to a file that was deleted.  Only the filename.  There is no link, and there is no reference to the location of the file that was deleted.

Notifications about new files have cryptic (to me) links, using an ?id number rather than a URL.  It would help me more if it had a URL to the location.  Then, even if the file AND its location become deleted, you still have a record of where the file used to be.

Andy


Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:56 AM, Andy wrote:
Notifications never contain a link to a file that was deleted.  Only the filename. 
Okay, now you're really confusing me.

You previously said that the missing notification was the upload, not the deletion. 

Bruce


Andy
 

For some purposes I can see where it works to use an ?id number as the link to a file's location, because that number stays the same even if the location moves.  But that doesn't work when the location is later deleted, making that ?id number useless.

Andy


Andy
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:59 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:56 AM, Andy wrote:
Notifications never contain a link to a file that was deleted.  Only the filename. 
Okay, now you're really confusing me.

You previously said that the missing notification was the upload, not the deletion. 

That is correct.  One of the many missing notifications today was about the Upload.

I was just replying to your message that said that "notifications contain a link to the file."  Sometimes they don't.  I am not entirely sure what prompted you to say that notifications contain a link to the file, but that part is not always true.

Regarding the uploaded file -- there was NO email notification at all about the uploaded file.  My complaint was not about the link to the file being missing; it was about the notification itself being missing.  There was never an email notification sent to me that said (paraphrasing) "File XYZ.lib was uploaded," with or without a link.  (Here, I am presuming that your use of the word "link" refers to the actual location of the file, e.g. a clickable link, and not just a mention of the file by its name.  Perhaps that is the thing I misunderstood about your earlier reply.)

Andy


Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 02:51 PM, Andy wrote:
 I suggest adding the name of the Folder, or a link to the Folder, where the file was deleted.
I agree adding a reference to where the file was deleted from would help. Although as Bruce alluded to, making a hyperlink to a file that no longer exists doesn't make sense. A hyperlink to the folder it was deleted from may be useful though.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 01:46 PM, Andy wrote:
My group settings are set to be notified by email when a folder is modified or a file is uploaded.  That setting is not honored.
I've been running tests and looked back at the email notifications I received for recent activity too and I can't see any notification that is missing.  I've had them for all uploads and deletes I've checked and even when I uploaded a group of files and immediately deleted one, the notification email showed both actions.  You seem to be assuming that because you did not receive a notification that Groups.io did not send one. Email is not a guaranteed service.

Regards
Andy


Duane
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 09:31 AM, Andy wrote:
It looks as if Groups.io decides it does not need to tell me that the file was uploaded, because it was deleted before sending an email notification about it.
I've never seen that happen.  As near as I can tell/remember, I've been notified of every action as compared to the Activity log.

Duane


 

Hi All,

I've added full paths to all File activity log entries as well as to notification messages. Also, for file/folder moves, I've added the destination folders. 

These changes only apply to new activities.

Andy, please send me as many details as possible about the missing notifications off-list, and I'll investigate.

Thanks,
Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 11:47 AM, Duane wrote:
On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 09:31 AM, Andy wrote:
It looks as if Groups.io decides it does not need to tell me that the file was uploaded, because it was deleted before sending an email notification about it.
I've never seen that happen.  As near as I can tell/remember, I've been notified of every action as compared to the Activity log.
I'm going to try one last time to get my point across.

All notifications of an upload currently include a link to the file. If the file was deleted before the notification is sent, is receiving such a notification a good thing? Is it even important to know that a file was uploaded and immediately deleted? It is, after all, too late to do anything about it.

Seems to me we're asking for another "bug report" down the line about receiving an emailed link that doesn't work.

Regards,
Bruce


Andy
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 04:10 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
All notifications of an upload currently include a link to the file. If the file was deleted before the notification is sent, is receiving such a notification a good thing? Is it even important to know that a file was uploaded and immediately deleted? ...

Yes, it is both good and important to know.  If knowing anything about what goes on in your group matters, then knowing that something was uploaded matters, even if it is deleted later - whether that's 15 minutes later or a week later.

... It is, after all, too late to do anything about it.

These notifications are not suggestions to me that I must do something about them.  Sometimes I do.  Even if not, I do want to know why someone uploads a file, and I really want to know if they upload it and delete it 15 minutes later.  What's going on with that?  Do they need assistance?  As Moderator, I am there to do that.

For this particular case, where I received notice that a file was deleted but no notice that it was uploaded, what does that tell me?  It says that someone deleted a file that might have been uploaded a dozen years ago, and now it's gone and I don't know if I can get it back.  I recognized the filename.  I started to panic - until I checked the Activity log and saw that the same person also uploaded a file with the same filename this morning, so perhaps that was the one he deleted.

Andy


Duane
 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 03:57 PM, Andy wrote:
Yes, it is both good and important to know.  If knowing anything about what goes on in your group matters, then knowing that something was uploaded matters, even if it is deleted later - whether that's 15 minutes later or a week later.
You will get a notification of uploads and deletes (along with other actions), but a link for a file that has been deleted won't do any good anyway.  Mark has already added full path in the notifications, so a link isn't really needed (especially if the file has already been deleted).  He's also agreed to try to determine what, if anything, went wrong for the situation where you claim to have not gotten notifications.

I've really been trying to follow your logic, but you've changed position a few times, so I may have misunderstood something.

Duane


Andy
 

Duane,

I believe I have not changed position.

But I regret having confused the situation by discussing more than one problem in the same thread.  If you feel that I have changed my position, then you might have misunderstood.  I apologize if that happened.  Perhaps you could point out where you think I changed position a few times.

The problems I had were basically these:

- No email notification when (some) files were uploaded today.  This is not a recurring problem.  But it happened today.
- Deletions: No hint where a deleted file had been before it was deleted.
- Uploads: There are somewhat cryptic "links" for uploaded files (in the activity log).  There are a few issues around that.

Please, tell me where did I flip-flop, or where do you think that I did?  I do not always explain things clearly enough for everyone.

Regarding "but a link for a file that has been deleted won't do any good anyway."  To you, maybe.  Not to me.  Example:  Say there are a dozen files named "master.lib", and one of them is deleted.  Which one?  It helps to know which copy was deleted - what was the path to the deleted file's location?  If you have a large file system on groups.io, where do you look to find where a file was when it is deleted?  If there are no consequences to deleting a file, then it wouldn't matter; but deletions have consequences.

Andy


Andy
 

Duane,

Some of the things I listed have been addressed already.  But I am still curious where I changed my position a few times.

Andy