moderated What happens when a group is Locked? #suggestion #misc


Andy
 

I was unsure where to ask this.  I started in Group_Help but moved it here because I think it may turn into a #suggestion.

Part 1:  What does it mean when the "Join This Group" button on a group's main page is greyed out?  Not really grey, but slightly lighter than the normal dark blue -- and the mouse pointer turns into a red circle and slash, when hovering over that button.

I think it might mean the group is LOCKED.

I saw that this button should not work when a banned member is currently logged in to groups.io, but that is not the case here.  The group's membership is not otherwise restricted and its settings say "Subscriptions to this group do not require approval from the moderators" and "Archive is visible to anyone."

So I wondered what else would cause this to happen, and I came up with two possibilities:

(1)  The group had a lot of activity in January which ended abruptly.  Maybe the activity turned "bad", and the owner LOCKED the group until heads cooled.

(2)  It might have gotten LOCKED automatically, if it was a Premium group that downgraded back to Basic, and its membership exceeded 100 members.  The group in question was created shortly after Feb. 8, 2021 (the cutoff date to which this applies), and there is a note in the Owners Manual saying that this happens when such a group upgrades to Premium and then downgrades back to Basic and has too many members.  Indeed, that group has 114 members.  So, it might explain the group being LOCKED -- if that is what happened to it.

Part 2:  If a group is LOCKED, is there anything to tell potential members that it is LOCKED and that's why the "Join This Group" button doesn't work?

I can't see anything on the group's page that would suggest that it's locked, or otherwise restricted.  Indeed, the listed settings suggest that anyone can join.

IMHO, if it has been LOCKED, there ought to be something prominent that says so.  Such as changing the button's text from "Join This Group" to "This Group Is Currently Locked And Can't Be Joined".

Part 3:  If a Basic group (that did not downgrade from Premium) reaches 100 members, is there any indication telling potential new members why they can't join?  Presumably such a group would not be LOCKED.

Part 4:  Can new members join a group that is Locked (by its owner)?  The Owners Manual says that members are prevented from posting messages or making changes in a Locked group, but I didn't see anything about new members.  (Admittedly I didn't read everything.)  It makes sense that new members are locked out when it is a Basic group with >=100 members, but does that happen with any Locked group too?  I'm just curious about that.

Andy


Andy
 

Hmm, the plot thickens (slightly).

The group can be joined, by email.  But not from the web.  Why is joining via the web blocked, but not joining via email?

I don't know for sure what group level it is, but it has no Files or Photos or Database sections, so I'm guessing it is a free Basic group, which has now exceeded its quota of 100 members.

I did not try sending a message, but it doesn't look like anything would stop it, yet.  The "New Topic" button and "Reply" links are all there.  One would think that they should be blocked if sending a message is prevented, so that you don't waste your time writing a long message, only to have it lost.

In other words, if the group is Locked because of >100 members, I think the groups.io interface needs some work.

Andy


Andy
 

I am not sure what is going on with this.

There seems to be only one obvious symptom: Nobody can "Join This Group" by clicking the "Join This Group" button.  Everything else seems to work.  But that button is broken.

Why?


Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 07:52:39 -0800, "Andy" <AI.egrps+io@gmail.com> wrote:

I am not sure what is going on with this.

There seems to be only one obvious symptom: Nobody can "Join This Group" by clicking the "Join This Group" button. Everything else seems to work. But that button is broken.
This subject might be more appropriate in the GMF group since at this point we
don't know if it's a bug or part of the way basic groups work after hitting the
magic 100 number of members before a charge is applied to the group for each
member.

If this were a suggestion or bug, it might be discussed here, but I think it's
not either, and you might actually get some discussion in the group managers'
forum.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 10:52 AM, Andy wrote:
I am not sure what is going on with this.
I can't speak for others, but I'm kinda at a loss to respond because I don't yet understand where you're coming from.

If you have a suggestion (per the hashtag), please describe your proposal.

If there's a bug, it seems to me the problem isn't that the Join button doesn't work, but that subscribing via email still does.

Regards,
Bruce


Andy
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 02:13 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
If you have a suggestion (per the hashtag), please describe your proposal.

I thought I did:

"IMHO, if it has been LOCKED, there ought to be something prominent that says so.  Such as changing the button's text from "Join This Group" to "This Group Is Currently Locked And Can't Be Joined"."

I would expand on that now, by suggesting that anything that causes a function to be disabled (including the "Join This Group" button) should have a visible explanation as to WHAT or WHY.

If there's a bug, it seems to me the problem isn't that the Join button doesn't work, but that subscribing via email still does.

That part is hard to tell, but I tend to agree with you, as I suggested in an earlier reply.

Because everything else in the group seems to function, it appears that maybe the group isn't locked because of exceeding 100 members -- in which case the broken "Join This Group" button would be the only bug.  OTOH, the bug may be that everything else still functions.

Again I am only guessing here (which I shouldn't be doing) -- but it would appear that the group's owner doesn't know his group has been Locked, or that there is any reason why it might be Locked.  (And if that's true, then another #suggestion might be to send weekly loud reminders to the owners/moderators to let them know that their group is Locked.  But I'm getting ahead of things.)

Andy


 

Hi Andy,

That was indeed a bug you discovered, allowing people to join free groups that are over the limit via email. I've fixed that.

Also, I've added a banner at the top over every page of a locked group that says `This group is locked. No changes can be made to the group while it is locked.`

Thanks,
Mark


Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 04:00 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've added a banner at the top over every page of a locked group that says `This group is locked. No changes can be made to the group while it is locked.`
I'm not seeing that.  I'm not a member of the group, but https://groups.io/g/4NEC2 appears to be locked (Join button disabled), but no banner on the home page or messages page.  I did a full refresh (Ctrl-F5) to make sure it wasn't cached from earlier when I looked at it.

Duane


Andy
 

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 05:48 PM, Duane wrote:
I'm not seeing that.  I'm not a member of the group, but https://groups.io/g/4NEC2 appears to be locked (Join button disabled), but no banner on the home page or messages page.  ...

Also, messages can be added.  So perhaps that group is not locked, but for some other reason, the "Join This Group" button is broken - er, disabled.

Andy


Dave Sergeant
 

Just looked at that group - it might be one that would want to join. At
only 115 members and 153 messages it is way below what might be blocked
for exceeding free gio limits. No indication in the posts about any
issue requiring it to be loked. So why it is locked is not clear at
all, there surely is another reason.

Dave

On 8 Mar 2022 at 14:48, Duane wrote:

I'm not seeing that.  I'm not a member of the group, but
https://groups.io/g/4NEC2 appears to be locked (Join button disabled),
but no banner on the home page or messages page.  I did a full refresh
(Ctrl-F5) to make sure it wasn't cached from earlier when I looked at
it.

http://davesergeant.com


 

Hi All,

The 4NEC2 group is a free group with over 100 members, which means that it cannot add any additional members (It's at 115 members, I'm guessing because of the bug allowing email subscriptions). We don't lock groups in this situation. The only time that we automatically lock groups is when a premium or trial group is downgraded to free, we lock any subgroups, because subgroups aren't allowed for free groups. (For this conversation, free groups are groups that are created after February 9, 2021 at 9am pacific time).

For free groups that can not add any more members, like 4NEC2, I've changed the Join button on the group home page to read `This Group Cannot Add Any More Members`.

Thanks,
Mark


Andy
 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 08:21 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
For free groups that can not add any more members, like 4NEC2, I've changed the Join button on the group home page to read `This Group Cannot Add Any More Members`.

This is relatively minor, but it might also help to do something with the line that says "Subscribe: 4NEC2+subscribe@groups.io" in the list of Group Email Addresses.  Perhaps add a note next to it that says that address or function is currently disabled.

Andy


Andy
 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 08:21 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
... The only time that we automatically lock groups is when a premium or trial group is downgraded to free, we lock any subgroups, because subgroups aren't allowed for free groups. ...

The Owners Manual needs to be corrected.  Here is what it says:

"(Groups.io systematically locks a group when it is a free Basic group that (a) was created after Monday, February 8, 2021 at 9:00 a.m. U.S. Pacific Time, (b) upgraded to Premium, (c) gained more than 100 members, and (d) later downgraded back to Basic. That group is locked until the member list is reduced to 100 members or the group is upgraded again.)"

And later:

"Note: Groups.io systematically locks a group when it is a free Basic group that was:
  1. Created after Monday, February 8, 2021 at 9:00 a.m. U.S. Pacific Time
  2. Upgraded to Premium
  3. Gained more than 100 members
  4. Later downgraded back to Basic
"That group is locked until the member list is reduced to 100 members or the group is upgraded again."

Neither place says that only subgroups were locked.

(Note that I cherry-picked those quotes out of the Owners Manual, and there is every chance that I missed something near those quotes.)

In other places, the manuals do say that it applies only to subgroups.

Andy