moderated Web/App notifications mean emails are not necessary #misc


Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

I've been pushing use the of app to my group members and it has had a positive response. I've had comments saying that as they get the notifications they need and read messages via the app, how do they stop the email delivery? From their point of view, the email is redundant now. I did some testing and realised that notifications are only sent in cases where Groups.io emails you the text of a message at some point so that means if you have subscription settings of Individual Messages, either of the Digest formats or Special Notices.  If you have a Daily Summary, the text of messages is not included so no notifications are sent for messages that would be listed in the summary. I have the 'No email' option disabled in my group so I expect you don't get them then either.  As far as I can see, the simplest thing a member can do to still receive notifications via the app but reduce email traffic is to select one of the digest formats.

Is there any alternative or anything in the pipeline that would allow a greater separation between app notifications and emails?

Thanks
Andy


 

On 2021-09-30 16:01, Andy Wedge via groups.io wrote:
As far as I can see, the simplest thing a member can do to still receive notifications via the app but reduce email traffic is to select one of the digest formats.
What about selecting Special Notices instead of a digest? Provided SNs are used infrequently in a group, it's pretty much No Email.

Cheers,
Christos


Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:07 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
What about selecting Special Notices instead of a digest? Provided SNs are used infrequently in a group, it's pretty much No Email.
That's my point. If you select special notices then you only receive notifications about those emails. The request was to receive notifications via the app about other messages but not the emails themselves.

Regards
Andy


Andy
 

Andy, maybe I'm a dummy, but I fail to understand what you are talking about.

I THINK you're saying that you created a (3rd party) App which is not part of Groups.io, and its purpose is to receive emails from a group, and present them to the member in a form other than email.  I think you are asking for a way for Groups.io to continue feeding those emails to your App, but not send them to the member in the form of emails.  How badly have I misunderstood?

On the off-hand chance that I actually understood, then I see 3 choices.  (1) Ask Mark to add a new feature to Groups.io to send group messages specifically to your App (or to some class of Apps of which yours is one), and let the user select whether to receive messages through that new port, or emails, or both, or neither.  (2) Let the user set up their email system to automatically delete emails from the group.  Gmail lets you do that.  (3) Tell the member to subscribe twice, set their normal groupts.io account to No Email, and let the other account send messages to your App.

I think you've left us somewhat in a fog about your App and that may be part of the problem with your question.

Regards,
Andy (the other one)


Duane
 

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 03:13 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Is there any alternative or anything in the pipeline that would allow a greater separation between app notifications and emails?
I think the capability is built, just not available to members.  The Member Notifications for Messages (in their Subscription options) would work like the Moderator Notifications where we can select to receive them: 1) Email and web/app, 2) Email only, 3) Web/App only, or 4) None.  (The current options for Members are Web/App Notifications or None.)  Your members would choose 3, along with their other preferences for messages.  The only difficulty I see is that if they choose None, it would effectively be No Email.  Maybe remove the None option for Members?

Duane


Derek Milliner
 

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 02:29 PM, Andy wrote:
I THINK you're saying that you created a (3rd party) App

There's an official Groups.io App now available for Android and Apple, released recently by Mark. It's been in beta for a while.

See : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.groups.webapp or https://apps.apple.com/us/app/groups-io-app/id1553820507

The issue centres around how app (possibly also Web) users that don't wish to receive email can still get notifications for e.g. new topics/messages 


 

Hi Andy,

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 1:13 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

I've been pushing use the of app to my group members and it has had a positive response. I've had comments saying that as they get the notifications they need and read messages via the app, how do they stop the email delivery? From their point of view, the email is redundant now. I did some testing and realised that notifications are only sent in cases where Groups.io emails you the text of a message at some point so that means if you have subscription settings of Individual Messages, either of the Digest formats or Special Notices.  If you have a Daily Summary, the text of messages is not included so no notifications are sent for messages that would be listed in the summary. I have the 'No email' option disabled in my group so I expect you don't get them then either.  As far as I can see, the simplest thing a member can do to still receive notifications via the app but reduce email traffic is to select one of the digest formats.

I've been thinking about this as well and want to fix it. But I haven't figured out how to tweak the subscription settings to allow for a setting where you get notifications for individual messages but no emails. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Mark
(who has been busying working on the app this week for other reasons) 


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 02:29 PM, Andy wrote:
I THINK you're saying that you created a (3rd party) App which is not part of Groups.io, ..........  How badly have I misunderstood?
Quite badly and you credit me with far too much knowledge to be able to do that 😊   I am referring to the official Groups.io app as Derek confirmed and you can view/join the Beta>app subgroup for more details and updates on that.

Regards
Andy




 

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 12:14 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've been thinking about this as well and want to fix it. But I haven't figured out how to tweak the subscription settings to allow for a setting where you get notifications for individual messages but no emails. Do you have any thoughts on that?

How about this: The Member Notifications' Messages dropdown is currently implicit in its usage, it doesn't say it but it implies one gets the emails too.  So make it explicit and have it work the same as the Mod Notifications, something like this:


The current value (and default) of "Web/App Notifications" becomes "Email and Web/App notifications", db updated, no downstream code changes, and the current value of "None" becomes "Email only", db updated, no code changes, so totally transparent to existing users.  App users who don't want the email can now go and select the new "Web/App notifications only" option, and are now able to get individual message notifications with no actual emails, and code is only needed for this combo and wouldn't be much.  Very minimal sub settings page visual changes, & minimal help manual changes. Everyone's happy.

Changing the help blurb from "Whether to be notified of new messages" to "Where to get emails and notifications of new messages" or something similar would help make it pretty obvious.

Cheers,
Christos


Andy Wedge
 

Hi Christos,

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 08:44 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
How about this: The Member Notifications' Messages dropdown is currently implicit in its usage, it doesn't say it but it implies one gets the emails too.  So make it explicit and have it work the same as the Mod Notifications,
your suggestion covers the receipt of notifications and how that is achieved but there is a distinction between the notification about a message and the message itself.  My point is that if a notification is received and the message itself is read via the app (effectively reading it online), then receiving an email with the same message text may be considered superfluous.

Currently Groups.io only sends you a notification about a message when it also sends you the message text by email (either in a digest, individual or special notice - you do not get notifications if you get a Daily Summary because that does not contain the text of messages).  Adding any kind of email option in the notifications list would create the situation where you would get an email to say that a message has been posted and then an email with the message itself.

I use Outlook on my PC and Nine as my mail client on my phone and these already create push notifications when I receive an email. So, choosing an email option from your suggested list would mean I would get two push notifications for each message from Groups.io, one for the notification email and another for the actual message - not user friendly at all.

Regards,
Andy


 

Hi Andy,

No, you misunderstood.  It's not a literal 100% correlation with the mod notifications, we're borrowing the options but not the content itself.  For the mods, yes, the "Email" option refers to receiving emails that contain the notification text themselves, for this (user) notifications section, the same "Email" option would mean receiving the emails that contain the same messages the notifications took them to read.

The options could be rephrased:

Web/App notifications and the emails

Web/App notifications only, skip the emails
No Web/App notifications, just the emails

Not the most elegant, I agree, but we would sneak-in the ability to skip getting the group message emails.

But here's another idea.  I was thinking, one of the the proposed changes for improving the sub settings UI (earlier this year) was a "Web Only" option which if checked would skip the group message emailing part.  So here's the chance to do it now. Add the "Web/App Only" option in the Advanced Preferences as a checkbox.



The default is unchecked so no current user impact whatsoever.  When the app user (or anyone for that matter) checks it, it stops the emailing-out of the group messages to them.  It accommodates the app users' wish, but also gives any user the ability to stop getting the emails themselves but still utilize the message content selections they want, without having to resort to digests or whatnot.  They can now have the "All Messages" setting selected and get notifications for them (if they want), but skip receiving the emails.  Codewise, should be simple as besides the UI & page code additions, it should only need a check for it before the emailing.  The default sub settings screen would also need the UI change.

Cheers,
Christos