Topics

moderated Turn off Credit Card tab #suggestion


Duane
 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.
There's at least one additional case to consider.  A moderator can have billing privileges to pay for a group without owning it.

Duane


Glenn Glazer
 

On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

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Something else that might occur is I join groups.io before I join any groups (I actually did that) and know thst im going to be creating some paid groups and want to enter my billing info at thst point.,Why should the system not let me do that?

A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”

Well, maybe that’s not a one-liner, but you get the idea.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.
There's at least one additional case to consider.  A moderator can have billing privileges to pay for a group without owning it.

Duane

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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Glenn Glazer
 

Why?

Best,

Glenn

On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
PG&E Delenda Est


 

Because I don’t like the ultimate effect. Billing info appearing and disappearing. Not being able to enter my billing info when ^I* want to do it (even if I want to do thst before joining or creating any groups). Etc.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


Why?

Best,

Glenn

On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
PG&E Delenda Est

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi All,

I'm not inclined to remove the tab. If you have suggestions for improvements to text on that page, I'd definitely consider that.

Thanks,
Mark


 

Hi Mark, I sent a possible blurb for the text. It’s a few posts downstream.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 10:37 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi All,

I'm not inclined to remove the tab. If you have suggestions for improvements to text on that page, I'd definitely consider that.

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chuck Palmer
 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:56 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”
That idea seems like a good, pragmatic solution.  It does not involve a lot of heavy lifting and would definitely help minimize confusion.

-chuck


Glenn Glazer
 

I grant that that's the current motivating example, but the rest of the things that Chuck and Duane were discussing are perfectly achievable without the disappearing effect.

Best,

Glenn

On 9/3/2020 10:29, J_Catlady wrote:
Because I don’t like the ultimate effect. Billing info appearing and disappearing. Not being able to enter my billing info when ^I* want to do it (even if I want to do thst before joining or creating any groups). Etc.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


Why?

Best,

Glenn

On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.


On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see...  Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.  True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it.  It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately.  Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done.  BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.

So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group information, include roles for a member.

The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what databases are built to do.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
PG&E Delenda Est

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
PG&E Delenda Est


 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:34 PM Chuck Palmer <palmerct@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:56 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”
That idea seems like a good, pragmatic solution.  It does not involve a lot of heavy lifting and would definitely help minimize confusion.

I've added this.

Thanks,
Mark