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Duane
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it. It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately. Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done. BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.
For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.
There's at least one additional case to consider. A moderator can have billing privileges to pay for a group without owning it. Duane
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On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020
at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of
groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of,
what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have
donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at
least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can figure
all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it. It would
have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful,
like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade
immediately. Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me,
though I'm sure it could be done. BTW, I doubt that many of my
members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their
account and no one has ever asked about it.
So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6
million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group
information, include roles for a member.
The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which
has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups
table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a
roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then,
there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples
(userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins,
leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and
groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping
table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable
strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it
is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including
the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second -
yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after
all, what databases are built to do.
Best,
Glenn
--
PG&E Delenda Est
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Something else that might occur is I join groups.io before I join any groups (I actually did that) and know thst im going to be creating some paid groups and want to enter my billing info at thst point.,Why should the system not let me do that?
A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”
Well, maybe that’s not a one-liner, but you get the idea.
On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it. It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade immediately. Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done. BTW, I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever asked about it.
For those groups that I am an owner or that have donations turned on, it makes sense for me to see the Billing menu item and it should be accessible.
There's at least one additional case to consider. A moderator can have billing privileges to pay for a group without owning it. Duane
-- J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
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Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.
On Sep 3, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020
at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of
groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a member of,
what my roles are in those groups, and which groups have
donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts, at
least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can figure
all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do it. It would
have to be an almost instantaneous status in order to be useful,
like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade
immediately. Seems like a terrible waste of resources to me,
though I'm sure it could be done. BTW, I doubt that many of my
members (~7,000 total) even know the Billing item exists in their
account and no one has ever asked about it.
So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6
million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime group
information, include roles for a member.
The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table which
has information about users, including a UUID for the user; a groups
table that has information about groups including a group UUID and a
roles table that has role information including a role UUID. Then,
there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples
(userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone joins,
leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving the roles and
groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping
table and decoding the group and role id's back to human readable
strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of resources" and yes, it
is available instantaneously. A query of this kind, even including
the subqueries for the strings returns in fractions of a second -
yes cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after
all, what databases are built to do.
Best,
Glenn
--
PG&E Delenda Est
-- J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
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toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.
On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep
3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of
groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a
member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which
groups have donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts,
at least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can
figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do
it. It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in
order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and
wants to upgrade immediately. Seems like a terrible waste
of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done. BTW,
I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the
Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever
asked about it.
So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6
million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime
group information, include roles for a member.
The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table
which has information about users, including a UUID for the
user; a groups table that has information about groups
including a group UUID and a roles table that has role
information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple
mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples
(userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone
joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving
the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement
against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's
back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No
"waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously.
A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the
strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are
used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what
databases are built to do.
Best,
Glenn
--
PG&E Delenda Est
--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the
fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human
together. - Desmond Tutu
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Because I don’t like the ultimate effect. Billing info appearing and disappearing. Not being able to enter my billing info when ^I* want to do it (even if I want to do thst before joining or creating any groups). Etc.
On Sep 3, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:
Why?
Best,
Glenn
On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.
On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane wrote:
On Thu, Sep
3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the back-end of
groups.io is my profile that says what groups I am a
member of, what my roles are in those groups, and which
groups have donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000 accounts,
at least 3 possible roles per account. True, a computer can
figure all that out, but it takes computing cycles to do
it. It would have to be an almost instantaneous status in
order to be useful, like when someone starts a group and
wants to upgrade immediately. Seems like a terrible waste
of resources to me, though I'm sure it could be done. BTW,
I doubt that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the
Billing item exists in their account and no one has ever
asked about it.
So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have over 2.6
million resident groups in our system and we provide realtime
group information, include roles for a member.
The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user table
which has information about users, including a UUID for the
user; a groups table that has information about groups
including a group UUID and a roles table that has role
information including a role UUID. Then, there is a simple
mapping table that has rows consisting of tuples
(userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated whenever someone
joins, leaves or changes roles in the group. Then, retrieving
the roles and groups for a user is a simple SELECT statement
against the mapping table and decoding the group and role id's
back to human readable strings by a secondary lookup. No
"waste of resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously.
A query of this kind, even including the subqueries for the
strings returns in fractions of a second - yes cycles are
used, but not an appreciable amount. This is, after all, what
databases are built to do.
Best,
Glenn
--
PG&E Delenda Est
--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the
fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human
together. - Desmond Tutu
--
PG&E Delenda Est
-- J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
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Hi All,
I'm not inclined to remove the tab. If you have suggestions for improvements to text on that page, I'd definitely consider that.
Thanks,
Mark
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Hi Mark, I sent a possible blurb for the text. It’s a few posts downstream.
On Sep 3, 2020, at 10:37 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,
I'm not inclined to remove the tab. If you have suggestions for improvements to text on that page, I'd definitely consider that.
Thanks,
Mark
-- J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu
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Chuck Palmer
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:56 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”
That idea seems like a good, pragmatic solution. It does not involve a lot of heavy lifting and would definitely help minimize confusion. -chuck
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I grant that that's the current
motivating example, but the rest of the things that Chuck and
Duane were discussing are perfectly achievable without the
disappearing effect.
Best,
Glenn
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9/3/2020 10:29, J_Catlady wrote:
Because I don’t like the ultimate effect. Billing info appearing
and disappearing. Not being able to enter my billing info when ^I*
want to do it (even if I want to do thst before joining or
creating any groups). Etc.
Why?
Best,
Glenn
On 9/3/2020 09:57, J_Catlady wrote:
Yes it can be done, but should it? I say no.
On 9/3/2020 09:39, Duane
wrote:
On Thu,
Sep 3, 2020 at 11:14 AM, Chuck Palmer wrote:
I would think that somewhere in the
back-end of groups.io is my profile that says what
groups I am a member of, what my roles are in those
groups, and which groups have donations turned on.
Let's see... Let's say 100,000 groups, 5,000,000
accounts, at least 3 possible roles per account.
True, a computer can figure all that out, but it takes
computing cycles to do it. It would have to be an
almost instantaneous status in order to be useful,
like when someone starts a group and wants to upgrade
immediately. Seems like a terrible waste of resources
to me, though I'm sure it could be done. BTW, I doubt
that many of my members (~7,000 total) even know the
Billing item exists in their account and no one has
ever asked about it.
So, I'm a software engineer for Second Life. We have
over 2.6 million resident groups in our system and we
provide realtime group information, include roles for a
member.
The simple db schema for such a thing is to have a user
table which has information about users, including a
UUID for the user; a groups table that has information
about groups including a group UUID and a roles table
that has role information including a role UUID. Then,
there is a simple mapping table that has rows consisting
of tuples (userid,groupid,roleid) that is updated
whenever someone joins, leaves or changes roles in the
group. Then, retrieving the roles and groups for a user
is a simple SELECT statement against the mapping table
and decoding the group and role id's back to human
readable strings by a secondary lookup. No "waste of
resources" and yes, it is available instantaneously. A
query of this kind, even including the subqueries for
the strings returns in fractions of a second - yes
cycles are used, but not an appreciable amount. This is,
after all, what databases are built to do.
Best,
Glenn
--
PG&E Delenda Est
--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author,
especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be
human together. - Desmond Tutu
--
PG&E Delenda Est
--
J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the
fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human
together. - Desmond Tutu
|
|
|
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:34 PM Chuck Palmer < palmerct@...> wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:56 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
A simple solution is a one-liner below the billing info, to the effect that “Your billing info, if entered, will be used for any groups you create that require payment, and for donations you elect to make to any of your groups that are enabled to ask for donations. You can change or remove it at any time.”
That idea seems like a good, pragmatic solution. It does not involve a lot of heavy lifting and would definitely help minimize confusion.
I've added this.
Thanks, Mark
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