moderated spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc


 

One of my group members is bouncing, with this message:
"neocat.org: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [66.175.222.108] blocked using bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.108"
This happened to the same member once a couple of months ago, just for one message, but he's now completely blocked. He thinks his spamblocker has blacklisted groups.io, which sounds right ... ??
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:33 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
One of my group members is bouncing, with this message:
"neocat.org: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [66.175.222.108] blocked using bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.108"
This happened to the same member once a couple of months ago, just for one message, but he's now completely blocked. He thinks his spamblocker has blacklisted groups.io, which sounds right ... ??

We were apparently on the Spamcop blocklist earlier today for one of our two mail servers. But we are not on it right now, and apparently there's no way for me to get any information on why we were on it.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

I don't know if this will help or not. I had 15 blocked messages that were reported to me today. The information on them was all the same. This was the last one:

When       Message        Reason
6:26pm   Digest #135    mail.bluetie.com: 554 inbound007.nyc1.bluetie.com cmsmtp BL0002:
                                          Mail Refused - IP Address <66.175.222.108> Blacklisted - Please see
                                          http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=66.175.222.108

Dano

----- Original Message -----
 
On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 8:33 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
One of my group members is bouncing, with this message:
"neocat.org: 554 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [66.175.222.108] blocked using bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see https://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?66.175.222.108"
This happened to the same member once a couple of months ago, just for one message, but he's now completely blocked. He thinks his spamblocker has blacklisted groups.io, which sounds right ... ??

We were apparently on the Spamcop blocklist earlier today for one of our two mail servers. But we are not on it right now, and apparently there's no way for me to get any information on why we were on it.

Thanks,
Mark 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Dave Sergeant
 

Which is the big problem with Spamcop. They are the ones who decide
what servers get put on their blocklists and they not only are
unwilling to tell you why but impossible to communicate with to get
blocks removed. It happens with my 1&1 SMP servers and my mail is
blocked for no fault of my own and no way to resolve it myself.

I commented earlier that I thought using Spamcop was a bad idea and we
can now see why.

Dave

On 7 Mar 2021 at 20:46, Mark Fletcher wrote:

We were apparently on the Spamcop blocklist earlier today for one of our
two mail servers. But we are not on it right now, and apparently there's
no way for me to get any information on why we were on it.

http://davesergeant.com


 

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 10:45 PM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:

I commented earlier that I thought using Spamcop was a bad idea and we
can now see why.

We're trialing Spamhaus, not Spamcop.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 9:55 PM D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
I don't know if this will help or not. I had 15 blocked messages that were reported to me today. The information on them was all the same. This was the last one:

And clicking the link doesn't provide any information.

Fortunately (I suppose), Spamcop sent a report to Linode, our hosting provider, with more information. It was a completely legitimate digest message sent to someone who was on a list that had moved from Yahoo last year. They've been on that list since 2011. I've disabled their account.

Mark


Alexis
 

I too have been having this happen to two of my email addresses, both using the same domain.
First one started over a week ago, the other yesterday,

Bizarre thing is that it is not rejecting all messages. The bulk that are rejected are emails containing lots of 'non-words', which is understandable, but some of those messages get through.

Then again, other 'normal' messages are sometimes being rejected but not always.

I have tested this by sending messages direct to those addresses, as well as via groups.io, so I presume my email provider uses spambot, which is a pain in the arse.

For what it may be worth, I think ALL server side spam filters are a bad idea. What one person may think is spam, another does not, and once you get on these blacklists it can be a pain to get off them, plus nothing is to stop you getting black listed again.
Personally I think all spam filtering should be done by the user.
As for groups.io, well it is a mailing group, and whilst I realise a lot of people read and post via a browser, it a MAILING group after all, so I am sure the majority of people read and post using their email software, so local spam filtering comes into play.

Just my penny's worth
Alexis


 

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 10:37 AM, Alexis wrote:
Bizarre thing is that it is not rejecting all messages.
That's probably because only one of the two mail servers was blocked. The same happened to my group member who was bouncing.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Alexis
 

ah, thanks for that...but it does seem to me more than just that.. As I said I send messages to myself and those that contained long lists of 'non-words' just vanished, yet all the others went through, so seems to be that spambot is rejecting certain messages and not others.


Alexis
 

saying that, what you are saying is no doubt true as well


SP4149
 

I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
ken


Tony Moody
 

I wrote to Spamcop, to a reference on the web :

On 2021-03-08 6:47 a.m., Tony Moody wrote:
> To SpamCop Admin Don D'Minion
>
> Hi,
>
> Please unblock mail02.groups.io [66.175.222.108]
>
> I am a user of Groups.io services and Spamcop is blocking delivery of my
emails from various
> groups and group members. This has resulted in much alarm and
despondency here due to
> missed emails , notices and even replies to my enquiries about the
Groups.io services.
>
> Please do not block my emails
>
> Again.
>
> PLEEASE DO NOT BLOCK LEGITIMATE , LEGAL AND DESIRED MESSAGES from
> Groups.io.
>
> WHAT SPAMCOP IS DOING IS THEFT AND IS WHAT CAN BE SEEN AS SPAMMING.
>
> PLEASE CEASE AND DESIST
>
> Tony Moody

Spamcop replied :

Sorry, Don isn't with us anymore. He passed away about six years ago.

The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
Richard

I signed up to Haitianpolitics@groups.io ; my french not good so I couldn't follow the conversation. There is some english .

It strikes me that perhaps Spamcop algorithms do not play nicely with "foreign"  languages.

OK,
Tony


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:51 AM, SP4149 wrote:
I had this happen today to subscribers on several lists simultaneously even though no messages had been sent when the bounce notice from spamcop was recorded on the activity log.
Ken -- Bouncing is an account status, not a subscription status. For this reason accounts can [and often do] start bouncing in response to activity in a group that is not yours.

Regards,
Bruce


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 02:20 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
It would be nice if they'd tell us what the trap address was so groups.io could ban it.

Bruce


Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:20 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.
I think I'm beginning to see what happened.  My theory:

1. Haitianploitics direct added the trap address.  [Personal Note: This is where some indication of Premium/Enterprise status on a group's home page would be useful to me.)
2. The GIO site got blacklisted when a message was sent to the trap address (that bounced.)
3. Spamcop unsubscribed the address twice.
4. GIO attempted to resend the bounced message to the trap address.
5. Spamcop put GIO back on the blacklist.

This assumes (I know, most often a bad idea) that the bouncing message was resent from the GIO queue, even though the trap address had unsubscribed.  If true, GIO should be cleared after a couple of weeks when the trap address goes into Bounced status and the unsubscribe takes effect.

My gut feeling is that the overall problem is with email services, particularly smaller ones, relying only on spamcop for filtering.  Even the spamcop site says not to do this, to use their service in conjunction with whitelists and other evaluation methods.

Maybe there's something in there that will help resolve the situation.

Duane


 

Hello,

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:20 PM Tony Moody <aim@...> wrote:

The issue with this IP address is that somehow one of our trap addresses
has found its way onto the mailing list Haitianpolitics@groups.io
We would never subscribe an address to a list and certainly would never
confirm a subscription to a mailing list.
However, stuff happens, so I did unsubscribe the address from the
list... twice.  The mail from Haitianpolitics@groups.io continues,
causing the IP to be listed again.


Thank you for this! I have been unable to get a response from Spamcop and this is a tremendous help. Haitianpolitics is an Enterprise group. They direct added some people multiple times over the past several days. I went through the most likely suspects and disabled those accounts. I also sent an email to the owners of the group telling them that they cannot do that again.

We are also now monitoring a whole lot of RBLs much more closely than we were in the past and keeping better records of their responses, which will help in tracking down events like this in the future.

As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.

Thanks,
Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.
It's been reported to me that GIO's outgoing IP addresses are still being blacklisted by some.

66.175.222.12  SORBS Spam and UCEPROTECTL3
66.175.222.108  UCEPROTECTL3 and ZapBL

They could be parroting SpamCop and maybe it will resolve on its own later?

FYI,
Bruce


 

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 2:52 PM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
As of now, we're not being blocked by Spamcop.
It's been reported to me that GIO's outgoing IP addresses are still being blacklisted by some.

66.175.222.12  SORBS Spam and UCEPROTECTL3

SORBS has been blocking that server since last June. I've given up trying to get them to unblock it.
 
66.175.222.108  UCEPROTECTL3 and ZapBL


The UCEPROTECTL3 blocklist should not be used by anyone. That's blocking us because we're hosted by Linode, who they don't like. As an aside, that blocklist is run by some rather immature and sexist dudes.

The ZapBL blocklist appears to be little used, and I'm not sure how to get us off of it. I've been ignoring it.

Thanks,
Mark 


Marv Waschke
 

Early on in this thread, I thought that Spamcop was not acting responsibly and considered doing some research, then complaining to my email provider. As this unfolds, I have started to change my mind. Blocking the groups.io server temporarily might have been a little precipitate, and certainly annoying to many groups.io users, but, on the whole, perhaps warranted.

I hope I am not abusing this forum by asking, but how do others feel about Spamcop? Worth raising a fuss about, or not? Best, Marv


Dave Wade
 

Marv,

 

The blocking of several thousand e-mails because a couple of SPAM items gets sent is totally disproportionate.

Then as I am sure it, or its users need to white lists gmail, yahoo & Microsoft (Hotmail, outlook) where some spam originates,

The real nasties still seem to slip through. I think the blacklist approach is totally broken.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marv Waschke
Sent: 10 March 2021 18:53
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] spamcop.net blocking groups.io? #misc

 

Early on in this thread, I thought that Spamcop was not acting responsibly and considered doing some research, then complaining to my email provider. As this unfolds, I have started to change my mind. Blocking the groups.io server temporarily might have been a little precipitate, and certainly annoying to many groups.io users, but, on the whole, perhaps warranted.

I hope I am not abusing this forum by asking, but how do others feel about Spamcop? Worth raising a fuss about, or not? Best, Marv


Duane
 

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 12:53 PM, Marv Waschke wrote:
how do others feel about Spamcop?
Even the spamcop site says that email providers should NOT depend solely on their service.  Setting up a whitelist for users to add to is one of their recommendations.  I'm pretty sure the providers that have serious problems are only using spamcop and no additional filtering.

This appears to have been a situation caused by one group owner.  They direct added a spamcop honey trap address that triggered the whole thing, then did it again at least once.  IMNSHO, blocking an entire site (GIO) due to one group's indiscretion is way overboard.

Duane