moderated Signifying +owner messages #suggestion


 

Hi All,

Right now, messages to the +owner address are forwarded on to moderators with just the group subject tag added to the subject of the message, without any other identifying information. This has confused me on more than one occasion, thinking that they were messages sent to the group, and not directly to the moderators. But I'm at a bit of a loss for ways to better identify what they are. Should I add a special hashtag to the subject line? Please let me know if you have any ideas for how to better identify these emails.

Thanks,
Mark


Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:46:48 +0100, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Right now, messages to the +owner address are forwarded on to moderators with just the group subject tag added to the subject of the message, without any other identifying information. This has confused me on more than one occasion, thinking that they were messages sent to the group, and not directly to the moderators. But I'm at a bit of a loss for ways to better identify what they are. Should I add a special hashtag to the subject line? Please let me know if you have any ideas for how to better identify these emails.

How about just putting +owner inside the brackets with the group tag - e.g. [beta+owner] - that you add to the subject line?

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


Andy
 

I filter my incoming emails based on the sender, so I trap those messages and give them a Label in Gmail.  It works for me.

Personally, I do not much like #Hashtags.  I find that I often ignore them, as "noise".  But maybe that's just me.

Our group messages come with [Groupname] as the start of every subject line, such as "[beta]".  I wonder if using [Groupname+owner] might help.  Being at the start of the Subject line, I think we are more likely to see it there.

Andy


Donald Hellen
 

Mark . . .

On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:46:48 -0700, "Mark Fletcher" <markf@corp.groups.io>
wrote:

This has confused me on more than one occasion, thinking that they were messages sent to the group, and not directly to the moderators.
This has confused me a number of times, too.

Donald



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Andy
 

I wrote:
I filter my incoming emails based on the sender, ...

Oops, sorry, I meant "based on the recipient address."


Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Right now, messages to the +owner address are forwarded on to moderators with just the group subject tag added to the subject of the message, without any other identifying information. This has confused me on more than one occasion, thinking that they were messages sent to the group, and not directly to the moderators. But I'm at a bit of a loss for ways to better identify what they are. Should I add a special hashtag to the subject line? Please let me know if you have any ideas for how to better identify these emails.
I use the subject tag (including the []) to filter my emails so would prefer not to see a change to that. In addition, I think that would be forcibly overriding a group setting.  A hashtag such as #owner-msg would work much better I believe and is in keeping with other messages from Groups.io.

A simpler method on the web site of locating +owner messages from anyone would be really helpful too.

Regards
Andy


Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 16 May 2022 18:31:42 +0100, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

I use the subject tag (including the []) to filter my emails so would prefer not to see a change to that. In addition, I think that would be forcibly overriding a group setting. A hashtag such as #owner-msg would work much better I believe and is in keeping with other messages from Groups.io.

I sympathise even though I know that filtering should really be done on the List-Id header.

How about [groupname]OWNER so it's outside the filtered text but adjacent and bold?

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


Michael Chopra
 

Hi. I also agree with this hashtag idea, was just about to suggest it myself.

Thanks.

From Michael.

 

Michael Chopra

BA (Law) University student.

 

 

From: Andy Wedge
Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2022 05:31
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Signifying +owner messages #suggestion

 

Hi Mark,

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Right now, messages to the +owner address are forwarded on to moderators with just the group subject tag added to the subject of the message, without any other identifying information. This has confused me on more than one occasion, thinking that they were messages sent to the group, and not directly to the moderators. But I'm at a bit of a loss for ways to better identify what they are. Should I add a special hashtag to the subject line? Please let me know if you have any ideas for how to better identify these emails.

I use the subject tag (including the []) to filter my emails so would prefer not to see a change to that. In addition, I think that would be forcibly overriding a group setting.  A hashtag such as #owner-msg would work much better I believe and is in keeping with other messages from Groups.io.

A simpler method on the web site of locating +owner messages from anyone would be really helpful too.

Regards
Andy

 


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 06:52 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
I know that filtering should really be done on the List-Id header.
Message sent to +owner don't have a List-id header!

Regards
Andy


Malcolm Austen
 

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:00:16 +0100, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 06:52 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
I know that filtering should really be done on the List-Id header.
Message sent to +owner don't have a List-id header!

Maybe they should have ..?

I'm no expert on the RFCs concerned but Mailman includes the list headers on messages to the -owner address.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


 

The potential issue with using a hashtag is that it can get overlooked since it's at the end of the subject line, possibly not even be displayed depending on the mail client's Subject column width if the subject is overly long and the client UI uses "..." to signify that.  Plus there could be additional hashtags added by the sender themselves.
 
>>> How about [groupname]OWNER so it's outside the filtered text but adjacent and bold?

 
I second Malcom's version, either as suggested or maybe adding a - or + in between, i.e. [groupname]+OWNER or [groupname]-OWNER.

It achieves the objective, it would always be displayed and it also stands out since it's in caps, and wouldn't break anyone's subject tag filters.

Cheers,
Christos


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 08:15 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
Maybe they should have ..?
Groups.io is effectively acting as a relay to send a message to selected people (the owner(s)) rather than the whole list so I guess it doesn't make sense to have a List-Id header in that case.

Regards
Andy


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 08:29 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
it also stands out since it's in caps,
Oh please, no!  That's suggestive of shouting and an assault on the eyeballs.

Regards
Andy


Gilbert Coville
 


On May 16, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 08:15 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
Maybe they should have ..?
Groups.io is effectively acting as a relay to send a message to selected people (the owner(s)) rather than the whole list so I guess it doesn't make sense to have a List-Id header in that case.

Actually, the recipients of the +owner email is a list of the owners and moderators who have opted to receive the +owner emails.  I think List-ID: groupname+owner would be appropriate.

Gilbert


Andy
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:07 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
...  That's suggestive of shouting and an assault on the eyeballs.

Maybe this is an acceptable exception.  You may not agree.  I'm just suggesting the possibility.  The idea is to make it obvious that it's an unusual message.

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:22 PM, Gilbert Coville wrote:
Actually, the recipients of the +owner email is a list of the owners and moderators who have opted to receive the +owner emails.  I think List-ID: groupname+owner would be appropriate.

How would having a List-ID help?

Can your email client notify you about a message with a List-ID that you have never received before?

Andy


 

>>> Oh please, no!  That's suggestive of shouting and an assault on the eyeballs.
 
My apologies, I wear glasses when typing so my eyeballs are protected from frontal and flanking assaults but still, I didn't realize that one word in caps would elicit such a visceral reaction, especially when one can argue that messages to the owner are kind-of "shouting" as they are trying to get the owner's attention.

In any case, let's be constructive instead, so how about then modifying the suggestion to have it in lower- or sentence-case?  Since the only problem seems to be the uppercase (based on your answer) I deduce you're agreeing with the suggestion sans the capitalization.  Would that be more palatable and/or agreeable?

Cheers,
Christos


Gilbert Coville
 

On May 16, 2022, at 2:24 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:07 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
... That's suggestive of shouting and an assault on the eyeballs.

Maybe this is an acceptable exception. You may not agree. I'm just suggesting the possibility. The idea is to make it obvious that it's an unusual message.

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:22 PM, Gilbert Coville wrote:
Actually, the recipients of the +owner email is a list of the owners and moderators who have opted to receive the +owner emails. I think List-ID: groupname+owner would be appropriate.

How would having a List-ID help?
I would filter on it and throw those messages into the same place that I put the new “Group Notification <noreply@groups.io>” messages into. That’s where I want to have my +owner messages put, but someone else might want to do it differently.

Can your email client notify you about a message with a List-ID that you have never received before?
Yes. I filter out List-IDs into various folders, anything that’s unrecognized would go to my inbox, which notifies me. But, even if I’d never received a +owner message, I would set up the filter ahead of time.

Gilbert


Andy
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 06:39 PM, Gilbert Coville wrote:
...
Yes. I filter out List-IDs into various folders, anything that’s unrecognized would go to my inbox, which notifies me. But, even if I’d never received a +owner message, I would set up the filter ahead of time.

So it looks to me that the same result happens if there were no List-ID with these +owner messages.  They would go into your Inbox.

It can be difficult to set up a filter ahead of time if you don't know what List-ID to look for.  I think the ordinary user would not think of filtering for a List-ID that they have never received yet, just in case one of them comes along.

Andy


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:44 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
Since the only problem seems to be the uppercase (based on your answer) I deduce you're agreeing with the suggestion sans the capitalization.
My comment (and the portion of your message I quoted) related purely to the use of capitals, nothing else should be deduced from that.

Regards
Andy


Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 04:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Please let me know if you have any ideas for how to better identify these emails.
while I think a hashtag would be useful and in keeping with other messages from Groups.io, there are two other precedents for identifying message that are slightly different in nature and they are the use of additional [Special] and [DM} tags that prefix the subject line. Rather than override a group's subject tag by adding something to it, what about just prefixing the subject line with a tag such as [Owner]?  I don't like to see more text that is necessary to get a meaning across and given that DM is generally accepted to mean Direct Message, it could even be shortened to [OM] for 'Owner Message'.

Regards
Andy


 

On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 12:10 AM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

while I think a hashtag would be useful and in keeping with other messages from Groups.io, there are two other precedents for identifying message that are slightly different in nature and they are the use of additional [Special] and [DM} tags that prefix the subject line. Rather than override a group's subject tag by adding something to it, what about just prefixing the subject line with a tag such as [Owner]?  I don't like to see more text that is necessary to get a meaning across and given that DM is generally accepted to mean Direct Message, it could even be shortened to [OM] for 'Owner Message'.

Great idea. I've changed it so that [Owner] is now prepending to the subject.

Thanks,
Mark 


Andy
 

Not that it matters -- but I would prefer not seeing DM.  To me, it is still a foreign currency.  Old habits die hard.

OM is just as bad; it's short for "Old Man".  And still is.

Andy