moderated Setting to enable one member to mute or unfollow another member #suggestion


Sandi D
 

The feature to mute/unfollow another member has been suggested in 2015,  2016 and again in 2020. It was added in 2015 to the To Do List and has come up again in a June 2022 GMF group post. To me, this would indicate long term, if not wide spread support for this feature. 

Here are some valid reasons why our group members are asking their Owners and Mods for a setting that would allow them to mute a particular member:
They feel the member makes too many posts throughout the day
They feel the member makes mostly irrelevant, confusingly or contradictory worded posts
They do not want the member's daily (or more) posts which always contain only attachments
They do not want the member's daily (or more) posts consisting solely of an inactive or broken link
They find that the member posts are not (and have never been) of interest to them
The member's personality or posting style is highly irritating to them
The relationship outside the GIO group (in "real" life) is perceived as disagreeable/threatening/bullying to them

Email filters, enforcing moderation, leaving the group, removing a member, using Web Only, etc are not ideal options. This is because they require the member who is "annoyed" (or otherwise) to take actions above and beyond what an enabled Setting option would achieve. 

Banning, removing or keeping a member on Moderation requires Mods to make subjective decisions. Their decisions affect other group members who have a different perception and do not necessarily want a specific member's posts to be delayed, edited or removed. Giving members the option to enable a "mute member" or "unfollow member" would reduce Mod involvement for determining the presence and the degree of "post annoyance". This is especially true when the member has not met the criteria for being removed or banned. 

Adding this feature is especially useful to organizations charging dues and directly adding all members to their GIO group. It allows them to retain all their members in their GIO group. It places the decision to reject or accept communication from a specific member onto the member who "complained" instead of the forcing the governing body/owner/mods having to reach a resolution. Since resolution lies with the member, it does not affect the other members of group. They will continue to receive the posts that another member does not. 

Sandi Dickenson







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Sandi Dickenson


 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 08:19 AM, Sandi D wrote:
The feature to mute/unfollow another member
Conversely, I think it would also be convenient in some cases to follow specific group members. That would be useful for two opposing reasons: (1) to make sure to see what I consider an important contributor has posted, and (2) to see what mischief certain other group members might be up to. :) This would be a "following only" option.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I also agree, this can be useful, and also since the infrastructure for it would now be there, extending it to also allow to follow a member's posts for FollowingOnly users would also be useful, so FO users can now follow by topic, hashtag, or member.

A few unmuted ramblings.

I'd guess that only for an email user who has muted a member, it would cause skipping emailing or including in digest/summary (FO or normal) group emails which are originating from that muted member.

I'm curious as to the online presentation of it though, how would it work/presented in Topic/Message View.  Obviously the display for everyone else (who is not muting anyone) would not change.  For a muting member, they'd still see the full thread & messages if it doesn't contain a message from a member they muted, but what about if it does contain messages from the muted member?  Not showing those messages at all wouldn't really work, so maybe still have a message "line" area but have the message collapsed in it with an expand button, like the Quoted-text button works?  This way the message could still be accessible by the muting member and the full topic would still be presented, it's just that at expanded-topic display time, only for the muting member, all the messages from the muted member get pre-collapsed.

Also, if it's done using this collapsed manner, what text would display when the message is collapsed in that message line area?  "Message from muted member"?  Would it include their name & pic?  I mean one may not stand not only that muted member's writings but also seeing their name or even their face, that could be useful in family-type groups :)

If you're reading  a message and click on the "Mute Member" button, what happens, are you taken back to the main topics page regardless?  Or are taken back to the expanded topic view but now with the muted member messages collapsed, and only if the OP message is from the muted member then go back to the main topics screen?

In main Topics view, for the muting member only, does the same collapsing method/style takes place for topics the muted member is the OP poster?

What happens -and gets displayed- if the muting member happens to click on a link -inside email or online message view- to a message which happens to be from a muted member?  Or a link to a topic whose OP poster is the muted member?  Possibly presented with a warning that they are about to be taken to a post from a member they have muted, with a Cancel or Continue2it option?

What about when a muted member is viewing messages online from a member who has muted them, does the "Private" button get disabled for those messages?

Would this "hiding" also extend to other areas or just messages?  What about chats?

Or what about Files or Photos whose owner is that muted member, do they get hidden for the muting member?  What about the Directory or group profile?  What if MemberList view is enabled for members, does a muting member's memberlist display exclude the muted member row? 

In other words, does it become "I don't want to receive or see-online anything associated with memberX"?  [with the exception of course of memberX quoted text in other people's messages]

And if it does become this group-wide content hiding, should then the "Mute/Unmute Member" button be also included in the Directory screen?

On the mod side, a new filter may have to be added in the MemberList screen for filtering and displaying only those members who are muted by another member.  Maybe also add some "muted" icon/badge next to them.  I'd guess one can then look at the log to find out who muted those members.  Or possibly add that info in the member screen?

Also, owners & mods wouldn't be able to be muted, right?  How would it work if a member muted memberX sometime in the past, and now you want to promote memberX to a mod?  Looks to me that, besides the member "Mute/Unmute Member" method, there has to also be some way for the admins to remove the "muted" attribute for someone.

One last thought, should this be also added as a group setting, some owners may not want to allow members to mute other members, period.  And if so, should that setting then be listed in the homepage's group info area on the right side?

It does look like it would touch quite a few different areas/processes throughout so it would be an involved project.
 
Cheers,
Christos


 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 03:04 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
I'm curious as to the online presentation of it though
Why should it have any effect on the online presentation? Following topics doesn't even do that now.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 03:55 PM, Janet_Catlady wrote:
Why should it have any effect on the online presentation?
Oops, I misread that. You're talking about the presentation of the choices.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

>>> Oops, I misread that. You're talking about the presentation of the choices.
 
I mean the presentation of the topic/message content online, based on whether the reader has muted another member or not.

Maybe I overthought things based on reading the other topics mentioned, but I was under the impression there would be some element of online viewing change/tweaking besides the non-emailing part.  If not and nothing changes online and muting a member just involved switching-off emails from muted member, things would be a lot simpler.

Cheers,
Christos


 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 05:19 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
I was under the impression there would be some element of online viewing change
Muting and following only apply to emails, not what the member see online. However, I do see a slight issue with what I thought your message was about, namely, how would you present the choices to the user of whom to mute/follow, and how would you show the user whom they're muting/following? For following topics, for example, they can see a list of "all topics" from their groups (etc. etc.). And they can mute/follow from within emails as well. Muting following a group member from within an email might be possible (but still seems difficutl), whereas I see no obvious way to let users mute/follow group members from the site. They'd have to have a list of all the group members, and that's not usually available. Then you get into "well, it's available in some groups if the great is set to show the members list" etc. And then the muting/following members feature would have to be an optional setting as well, only available if the group is set to show the members list to non-mods. Etc, etc, etc.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 10:19 AM, Sandi D wrote:
It places the decision to reject or accept communication from a specific member onto the member who "complained"
One thing that I don't recall seeing in any of the discussions is whether this choice would be 'permanent' or expire after some time.  I can understand wanting either option.  Since it's the objecting member that chooses to mute another member, I believe the mute choice should be maintained (permanent) until the objecting member removes it .  There's a chance that they could miss something that's actually worthwhile, but I wouldn't waste any energy being concerned about it since they made the choice.

Duane


 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 04:53 AM, Duane wrote:
whether this choice would be 'permanent' or expire after some time
Assuming the whole idea is even doable, I was envisioning it being analogous to following and mutin topics and hashtags, where you can unfollow and unmute.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Donald Hellen
 

Duane . . .

On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 04:53:19 -0700, "Duane" <txpigeon@...> wrote:

Since it's the objecting member that chooses to mute another member, I believe the mute choice should be maintained (permanent) until the objecting member removes it . There's a chance that they could miss something that's actually worthwhile, but I wouldn't waste any energy being concerned about it since they made the choice.
Good point. I would make it a permanent feature rather than add options like
"mute for one month only" or other options based on time limits. I don't think
Mark needs to make this feature have all sorts of options, just allow it to mute
a person. The "muter" (person doing the muting of another member) can mute the
"mutee" (person being muted) and it's on them to cancel the mute operation.

If they only want to do it for a month, they can set something on their calendar
on their phone or PC to remind them. Let's not make this more difficult for
Mark, even though he could probably add a timer to it.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Donald Hellen
 

Duane . . .

On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 04:53:19 -0700, "Duane" <txpigeon@...> wrote:

There's a chance that they could miss something that's actually worthwhile, but I wouldn't waste any energy being concerned about it since they made the choice.
This just occurred to me.

Perhaps the muter could have a reminder in the emails from GIO for the group
involved stating that the mute member option is in use in this group. Also, on
the group site, something similar near the top.

Though I can understand the argument that the "muter" takes the responsibility
upon himself to keep track of this. But if it's easy to add this to the feature,
it might be appreciated by some.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Patrick Kernan
 

Sounds like a good idea.


 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 06:47 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
it's on them to cancel the mute operation
As long as they CAN cancel it. I thought people were proposing it being necessarily permanent. I think that would be a mistake.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Donald Hellen
 

No, I don't see anywhere in the suggestions that it be a permanent,
non-reversible action. I agree it would be a mistake.

I could understand some reminder that at least one person is being muted.



Donald



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022 08:49:23 -0700, "Janet_Catlady"
<JanetOliviaCatlady@...> wrote:

As long as they CAN cancel it. I thought people were proposing it being necessarily permanent. I think that would be a mistake.

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 08:52 AM, Donald Hellen wrote:
I don't see anywhere in the suggestions that it be a permanent
Just reread, and I think you're right.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 06:53 AM, Duane wrote:


One thing that I don't recall seeing in any of the discussions is whether this
choice would be 'permanent' or expire after some time.
I know we're talking about muting members, but I wouldn't mind having a temporary mute option on a topic, or match any word in the message. Say I don't normally mind reading about a certain topic, but suddenly big news erupts about it, and everyone wants to talk about it all at once, and I don't want to be bombarded by it. If I could mute all messages containing a certain word for a month, then I wouldn't have to worry about turning off the option in a month when the topic is not likely to be as overwhelming. And if it is, I just mute it again for another month, or decide it should be muted permanently.

JohnF


 

(Oh, and before someone points out there is a "Mute this Topic" button, I know. I'm talking about a larger pattern match, not a defined "Topic". I should have been more careful about my choice of terms.)


Alan Heubert
 

Nice suggestions. The ability to follow other members would be useful in our group as well.
Alan


 


>>> Since it's the objecting member that chooses to mute another member, I believe the mute choice should be maintained (permanent) until the objecting member removes it

Correct but also add to that, "or until a mod removes it" which would be necessary since admins cannot be muted and someone (who is currently being muted by another member) may need to be promoted to a mod.


>>>    I was under the impression there would be some element of online viewing change
>>>
>>> Muting and following only apply to emails, not what the member see online

Then I guess a good chunk of my content-display unmuted ramblings in 32673 can be muted now since they're not applicable ... and it does make things a lot easier implementation-wise.


>>>
, how would you present the choices to the user of whom to mute/follow, and how would you show the user whom they're muting/following?

Here's one possible implementation:

Assuming we want the functionality to be group-selectable, add a setting in Group settings that enables/disables Member Muting.  The question is where to put it.  The Features tab would be a good place for it but it's not enabled for free groups anymore, so I guess the General tab then, it doesn't quite fit any of the remaining tabs.

- If group setting is Disabled, there's no related visual changes throughout (or if they are showing, they are disabled/greyed-out).

- If group setting is Enabled:

For muting a member, there would be only one way to do it, directly from the message, either through the email footer or online in MessageView.  This eliminates any need to present a member list/Directory/textbox for selecting/entering someone's address to mute.  Plus just the message is all that's needed for the code to know who is muting who, so it makes sense to have it available when the message is being presented/viewed.

- For email users, a new link would be added to the footers, "Mute Sender", "Mute Author", etc which would invoke a specialized link that would work like the "Follow Topic" footer link, i.e. you'd be taken on a online page to confirm this, possibly also summarizing the consequences of muting a member.

- For online users or when viewing a group message online, when logged-in only, a new button appears in MessageView, "Mute Member" if the message's author is not in your muted list AND message's author is not an admin, or "Unmute Member" if the message's author is in your muted list, similar to the way Follow/Unfollow Topic works for the FO users.  If Mute Member is clicked, bring up an "Are you sure?" dialog similar to the above email landing page.  If they go through it, then the screen refreshes and the Mute Member button changes to Unmute Member.  And vice-versa, unmuting a member also brings up a confirmation dialog and refreshes screen if went through with it.

For unmuting a member, email users won't be able to unmute someone by email because by definition they are not getting group messages authored by that muted member so there couldn't be an "Unmute Sender/Author" footer link.  They would have to go online to unmute a member.

Two ways to Unmute online:

- The MessageView way as already mentioned, find a message from that muted member and click the Unmute button.

- The subscription screen (/member) would be the ideal place to put the list info on the members one is muting within each group and the other place to remove a mute.  In the Advanced tab there could be something like this, similar to the aliases style:


Clicking on the X removes that muted member.  If there are none in the list, this bit could be auto-hidden to save on real estate.

The mods would also see this list when editing a member so they would also be able to remove a member from that list for the scenario I mentioned above.

As for reminders, I'd personally think having a small icon next to a group name where you're muting someone in the "Your Groups" summary screen, would be enough. 

And that would do it pretty-much I'd think.

Cheers,
Christos


 

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 10:32 AM, JohnF wrote:
before someone points out there is a "Mute this Topic" button, I know.
Not going to point that out, but pointing out that you can mute a hashtag. If people use hashtags in the particular group to more or less indicate what the subject is, that could work for you. I don't think your ask stands a chance of happening.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu