moderated "Reply to Sender" Anomaly #bug


Chris Jones
 

I have been providing some assistance to the Moderator of another Group (of which I am a member) following the decision to find a means of stopping a degree of misuse by some members. The Group is one of two owned by an real organisation; group "ownership" is for all practical purposes vested in a committee and we all know the joy that that can bring.

The obvious solution to the ptoblem was to set the default reply option to Reply to Sender and check the Remove Other Reply Options box. So far, so good, but...

We soon spotted that on a couple of occasions a member had replied to an original post, i.e. that starting a new topic and that his reply had appeared on the web UI. A quick check revealed that the buttons available on the web UI were entirely consistent with being able to reply to the sender only and not the entire group.

We checked with him to see if he had set up some surreptitious workaround, but had hadn't. He had replied simply using his email client and was surprised to be told that his reply was visible on the web interface. He was innocently clicking on Reply All on his client and assuming that Groups.io would sort out the required routing. As yet he has not confirmed which client he is using but I have since found that this problem can certainly arise if using Outlook with Win10, for the simple reason that that is the combination that I use. 

The footer of the message generated by the initial message in a topic (i.e. the only one that should appear on line) is correct in that it has Reply to Sender and that no other reply options are presented. However, if I click on that, Outlook tries to force me to set up a new contact and will not allow me to just send a message to the underlying address. Similarly if I click on Reply in my mail client the same thing happens; some decision by Microsoft barges into the way and will simply not let me send a reply. If, however, I click on Reply All it lets me continue the way I want, but, the incoming message header contains information including the "post" address for messages to a group, and that is providing the route in for messages supposedly for sending to the originator only also appearing on the web UI.

Is there a way of blocking this back door route and making sure that Reply to Sender means just that, with no appearance on the web interface being possible?

Chris


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 06:01 PM, I wrote:
...making sure that Reply to Sender means just that, with no appearance on the web interface being possible?
I had hoped that my post would have generated some comments!

Watching the group where "Reply to Sender" (only) was recently implemented it is noticable that several members have managed to post replies on - line rather than just to the topic originator. I suspect that this is more accidental than deliberate; either way something isn't as it is supposed to be.

Chris


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 06:25 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
Watching the group where "Reply to Sender" (only) was recently implemented it is noticable that several members have managed to post replies on - line rather than just to the topic originator. I suspect that this is more accidental than deliberate; either way something isn't as it is supposed to be.
This usually happens when someone clicks Reply All instead of just Reply, but there are also some mail clients that are simply not RFC compliant.

The simplest answer may be to automatically lock the topic after the first post. Then if someone clicks Reply All in his client, the copy sent to groups.io will be bounced but the other copy should still go back to the topic originator unscathed. 

Not the most elegant solution, but a solution nonetheless.

Regards,
Bruce


Donald Hellen
 

Bruce . . .

On Tue, 24 May 2022 08:07:07 -0700, "Bruce Bowman" <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

This usually happens when someone clicks Reply All instead of just Reply, but there are also some mail clients that are simply not RFC compliant.
Mine must not be. When I clicked "reply to all" on this I got the group email
address main@beta.groups.io in both the to: and the cc: fields.

Not a problem here, though. I rarely want to do that and can copy and paste an
email address to the cc: field. If it's a munged address, I can figure those out
as well.

Donald KX8K



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Bruce Bowman
 

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 02:21 PM, Donald Hellen wrote:
Mine must not be. When I clicked "reply to all" on this I got the group email
address main@beta.groups.io in both the to: and the cc: fields.
Donald -- The beta group is not set to reply to sender. You might want to try this again on a group that is.

Regards,
Bruce


Donald Hellen
 

Bruce . . .

On Tue, 24 May 2022 13:24:34 -0700, "Bruce Bowman" <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

Donald -- The beta group is not set to reply to sender. You might want to try this again on a group that is.
I wouldn't know one to see one.

I do know the links for replying work as expected.

Donald



----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 04:07 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
The simplest answer may be to automatically lock the topic after the first post. Then if someone clicks Reply All in his client, the copy sent to groups.io will be bounced but the other copy should still go back to the topic originator unscathed. 

Not the most elegant solution, but a solution nonetheless.
You can't see me, but my brow is furrowed about this!

As far as I can see there is no way of a post being automatically locked immediately after it has been sent, so the only way for this to be done would be by moderator action, which is hardly ideal. In addition, once the original was locked there would be no way for anyone wanting to reply to the sender from the web interface; they would be faced by "Locked" with no access to "Reply".

Chris


 

Chris,

I think what you're asking for is a group that only permits messages that start new topics. I think that'd be a different setting from 'Reply To Sender' because oftentimes (in my experience) those groups are fine with replies going to the group, but just want the default to be that replies get sent to the sender.

But an issue with a group set to this new setting would be that it would bounce (accidentally sent) replies to the group. So someone with a poorly designed mail client might end up getting confusing bounce messages from us. Not sure how to address that.

Mark


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 04:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I think what you're asking for is a group that only permits messages that start new topics.
Only "in a sense"; please read on!

I think that'd be a different setting from 'Reply To Sender' because oftentimes (in my experience) those groups are fine with replies going to the group, but just want the default to be that replies get sent to the sender.
Strictly speaking "new topics only" already exists, in that if the default reply option is Reply to Sender, and Remove Other Reply Options is checked then (in theory anyway) the only place a reply can go is to the originator of a new topic, and not appear on the web interface as another post under the same topic.

However, that is not how things seem to happen in practice; if for any reason a member wants to reply to the originator but clicks on their email client's Reply All tab then their emailed reply will go to both the originator and the web UI as a post to the same topic. It does not help that for whatever reason Outlook in Win10 (and IIRC Win7 and probably 8 before it) refuses to send to a linked email address without adding to a contacts list first. This happens if the mail user clicks on Reply but not if they choose Reply All. Most frustrating.

Even if Reply to Sender and Remove Other Reply Options are selected the posting address for the entire Group (i.e. the web UI) is still included in the emails sent to members; would removing that be a viable option or might it create other anomalies?

Chris


Tom Biggs GFCA
 

@gmail.com@@- as 11 asked asked 1 a



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


-------- Original message --------
From: "Chris Jones via groups.io" <chrisjones12@...>
Date: 6/1/22 12:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "Reply to Sender" Anomaly #bug

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 04:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I think what you're asking for is a group that only permits messages that start new topics.
Only "in a sense"; please read on!

I think that'd be a different setting from 'Reply To Sender' because oftentimes (in my experience) those groups are fine with replies going to the group, but just want the default to be that replies get sent to the sender.
Strictly speaking "new topics only" already exists, in that if the default reply option is Reply to Sender, and Remove Other Reply Options is checked then (in theory anyway) the only place a reply can go is to the originator of a new topic, and not appear on the web interface as another post under the same topic.

However, that is not how things seem to happen in practice; if for any reason a member wants to reply to the originator but clicks on their email client's Reply All tab then their emailed reply will go to both the originator and the web UI as a post to the same topic. It does not help that for whatever reason Outlook in Win10 (and IIRC Win7 and probably 8 before it) refuses to send to a linked email address without adding to a contacts list first. This happens if the mail user clicks on Reply but not if they choose Reply All. Most frustrating.

Even if Reply to Sender and Remove Other Reply Options are selected the posting address for the entire Group (i.e. the web UI) is still included in the emails sent to members; would removing that be a viable option or might it create other anomalies?

Chris
--
Tom Biggs
GFCA


Tom Biggs GFCA
 

a ZZZ 



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


-------- Original message --------
From: "Chris Jones via groups.io" <chrisjones12@...>
Date: 6/1/22 12:24 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] "Reply to Sender" Anomaly #bug

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 04:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I think what you're asking for is a group that only permits messages that start new topics.
Only "in a sense"; please read on!

I think that'd be a different setting from 'Reply To Sender' because oftentimes (in my experience) those groups are fine with replies going to the group, but just want the default to be that replies get sent to the sender.
Strictly speaking "new topics only" already exists, in that if the default reply option is Reply to Sender, and Remove Other Reply Options is checked then (in theory anyway) the only place a reply can go is to the originator of a new topic, and not appear on the web interface as another post under the same topic.

However, that is not how things seem to happen in practice; if for any reason a member wants to reply to the originator but clicks on their email client's Reply All tab then their emailed reply will go to both the originator and the web UI as a post to the same topic. It does not help that for whatever reason Outlook in Win10 (and IIRC Win7 and probably 8 before it) refuses to send to a linked email address without adding to a contacts list first. This happens if the mail user clicks on Reply but not if they choose Reply All. Most frustrating.

Even if Reply to Sender and Remove Other Reply Options are selected the posting address for the entire Group (i.e. the web UI) is still included in the emails sent to members; would removing that be a viable option or might it create other anomalies?

Chris
--
Tom Biggs
GFCA


Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 05:23 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
It does not help that for whatever reason Outlook in Win10 (and IIRC Win7 and probably 8 before it) refuses to send to a linked email address without adding to a contacts list first.
Outlook 2010 introduced a Suggested Contacts folder using address on received emails but that was dropped on a later version. I've never known Outlook actually create new contacts for me.  If you are referring to the AutoComplete list, that can be cleared and the function turned off in the Outlook options:



Regards
Andy


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 05:48 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
I've never known Outlook actually create new contacts for me. 
This might be picky but IME it doesn't "create" anything, but it tries to force me to!

If you are referring to the AutoComplete list, that can be cleared and the function turned off in the Outlook options:

I've turned that off and will put it to the test at the first opportunity.

Chris


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 06:09 PM, I wrote:
I've turned that off and will put it to the test at the first opportunity.
Well I tried it and it made no difference. The answer (if there is one) lies elsewhere.

Chris