locked Pricing Changes #update


 
Edited

Hi All,

I mentioned a year ago that I was considering changing to a per-member based pricing scheme for new groups. This would align our revenue with our costs; the larger the group, the more it costs us to host. It's also industry standard.

For groups upgraded after Monday, February 8th, 2021 at 9am Pacific Time, the pricing plans will be based on the number of members in the group. The base costs of the different existing plans are not changing. The change is that above a certain number of members, the per member pricing kicks in. Here is the run down:

Free

  • Up to 100 members
  • 1GB storage
  • Single mailing list only

Premium

  • Starting at $20/month or $220/year
  • Up to 400 members, then $0.05/member/month or $0.55/member/year for each member above that
  • 30GB storage
  • Subgroups
  • Collaboration Suite
  • Donations
  • Direct Add

Enterprise

  • Starting at $200/month or $2200/year
  • Up to 1000 members, then $0.20/member/month or $2.20/member/year for each member above that
  • 1TB storage
  • Enterprise features

Notes:

  • These changes only apply to groups upgraded after Monday, February 8th, 2021at 9am Pacific Time; existing premium and enterprise groups will keep their legacy pricing. If a premium group opts to downgrade and then upgrades at some point in the future, they will be subject to the new pricing changes.
  • The non-profit Enterprise discount will continue; $100/month or $1100/year, with the per member pricing being either $0.10/member/month or $1.10/member/year.
  • The plan price is calculated using the member count at the time of invoice, either monthly or yearly. For this calculation, a member is defined as a confirmed, non-pending, non-banned member of your main group.
  • Premium groups will now have 30GB storage. Existing premium groups will get this storage bump as well.
  • The 100 member limit for free groups only applies to groups that are created after Monday, February 8th, 2021 at 9am Pacific Time. Existing free groups will be unchanged.
  • If a group created after Monday, February 8th, 2021 at 9am Pacific Time upgrades to premium, gains more than 100 members, and then later downgrades back to free, the group will be locked until the member list is reduced to 100 members.
  • Some very large groups recently transferred from Yahoo to us. I requested that they sign up for the existing Enterprise plan. If any additional very large groups transfer over before Monday, February 8th, 2021, I reserve the right to also ask that they sign up for the existing Enterprise plan.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks, Mark


 

Mark,

Sounds good to me. Being legacy, I'm not affected by any of this but I have one comment and one question.

The comment: premium also includes the "past members" list.

The question: how will you determine the number of group members? Ours, for example, is in a constant state of flux. What if somebody creates a group with 400 members, and immediately afterwards they add one? And then the next week, or month, they go back down again? Just curious.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:15 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

The question: how will you determine the number of group members? Ours, for example, is in a constant state of flux. What if somebody creates a group with 400 members, and immediately afterwards they add one? And then the next week, or month, they go back down again? Just curious.

I will count the number of members at the time of invoicing, either every month or every year.

Thanks,
Mark 


Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 10:50 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Collaboration Suite
What is meant by this? I see no reference to that term in the manuals?

Regards
Andy


Mark Irving
 

As a co-owner of a legacy Free group with a lot of members, I am relieved that these new prices won't affect me. I am concerned that they will put off potential new groups and upgrades of old groups.

For me it's a contribution to a low-budget hobby; when looking for a group host site as we moved off Yahoo! Groups two or three years ago, a $3000/year cost for a Premium plan would have ruled out Groups.io completely. (My personal spending on vintage sewing machines, for which I help look after more than one group, is less than $100 per year. Yes, donations might cover some of the costs, but wouldn't arrive until after signing up and paying out first.)

Would it be realistic to charge a per-member cost which decreased with larger groups? For example, less than $0.55/year for members after the 800th for Premium groups?

Of course I appreciate that Mark has to raise the costs of running his business. I also appreciate the excellent system he has created and is maintaining. Thank you!

 - Mark


Malcolm Austen
 

On 16/12/2020 22:50:55, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

<snip> Notes: <snip> 

Malcolm Austen: 
Mark, I wonder whether I am right in my reading of these changes - I think I see an implication that it will no longer be possible for a (current) free group to pay for one month to gain access to Direct Add or to import an archive and then revert to the previous free status (only to the new-rules free status). Am I reading this correctly?

Keep safe, Malcolm.


Sandi D <sandi.asgtechie@...>
 

It's nice to see that the large non profits are covered with a discount. Thanks. Hoping someday that our smaller ones will be offered a discount at the Premium levels.
--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group
A verified educational 501(c)(3)


 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 3:10 AM Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

Mark, I wonder whether I am right in my reading of these changes - I think I see an implication that it will no longer be possible for a (current) free group to pay for one month to gain access to Direct Add or to import an archive and then revert to the previous free status (only to the new-rules free status). Am I reading this correctly?

No, nothing changes with that. You can upgrade for a month, do your direct add, and then downgrade again to free. Note that we have always asked groups to pay for a year of premium for us to import archives.

Thanks,
Mark 


Russell Courtenay
 

I understand there are costs but I operate a large number of enthusiast groups from which I make no money, I do it because I enjoy the topic. Some of these groups get big, some don’t, some donate to cover expenses, some don’t get the concept that electrons are free but hosting costs money. 

If this was my commercial enterprise, I would include such costs in ‘cost of doing business’, no problem, how do we stay in touch with something that is not profitable but still very valuable?


M K Ramadoss
 

Mark has to run a self sustaining business with a reasonable profit so that Group.io will survive and successful in the long run. The tech support users are getting is outstanding.

I host couple of groups; some with large number of members and most of them are lurkers. Cost of 5 cents per year should not be a burden for anyone!

MKR 


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 1:59 PM Russell Courtenay via groups.io <walruswebtech=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I understand there are costs but I operate a large number of enthusiast groups from which I make no money, I do it because I enjoy the topic. Some of these groups get big, some don’t, some donate to cover expenses, some don’t get the concept that electrons are free but hosting costs money. 

If this was my commercial enterprise, I would include such costs in ‘cost of doing business’, no problem, how do we stay in touch with something that is not profitable but still very valuable?


Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 08:08 PM, M K Ramadoss wrote:
Cost of 5 cents per year should not be a burden for anyone!
Having reread Mark's original post about this a couple of times it appears to be 5 cents per month, not per year.

Chris


ro-esp
 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 11:50 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

the larger the group, the more it costs us to host.
Does a quiet group with 1000 members always cost you more than a busy one with just a few dozen?

Do you have any statistics on how many groups there are, how big they are and how busy?

Is there a way to contribute financially if you don't have a paid group?

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Duane
 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 02:59 PM, ro-esp wrote:
Is there a way to contribute financially if you don't have a paid group?
Here's a suggestion I made recently on GMF:
One option would be to create a test group (using the settings required by GIO - "If you are creating a group solely for testing, please ensure that the Visibility option is set for Group not listed in directory, private messages, otherwise the group will be deleted.") and upgrade it to Premium for a month now and then to show your appreciation.  That would keep folks from getting confused when your regular group has features that come and go.  You could also change it to a 'real' group later if you want.

Duane


 

I’m getting confused just reading this.


On Dec 17, 2020, at 1:14 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 02:59 PM, ro-esp wrote:
Is there a way to contribute financially if you don't have a paid group?
Here's a suggestion I made recently on GMF:
One option would be to create a test group (using the settings required by GIO - "If you are creating a group solely for testing, please ensure that the Visibility option is set for Group not listed in directory, private messages, otherwise the group will be deleted.") and upgrade it to Premium for a month now and then to show your appreciation.  That would keep folks from getting confused when your regular group has features that come and go.  You could also change it to a 'real' group later if you want.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 08:59 PM, ro-esp wrote:
Does a quiet group with 1000 members always cost you more than a busy one with just a few dozen?
First define "quiet" and "busy".

Chris


M K Ramadoss
 

Thanks for the correction. It works out to 55cents a year paid annually.
Little more than 1/2 dollar per year is still very reasonable.

MKR


On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 2:21 PM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 08:08 PM, M K Ramadoss wrote:
Cost of 5 cents per year should not be a burden for anyone!
Having reread Mark's original post about this a couple of times it appears to be 5 cents per month, not per year.

Chris


Samuel Murrayy
 

Mark is, of course, free to do what he wants, but by capping free groups at 100 members he is essentially saying "no more free groups".  In most groups that I participate in, only 5-10% of members actively post, so "100 members" really means "5-10 members posting".  And one jiggabyte of storage sounds insane to me.  A 2000 member limit with 50 MB of storage would have made more sense.  But I'm not a techie -- perhaps that is the way modern pricing works: storage is cheap and signaling is expensive... is that right?


 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 1:48 PM Samuel Murrayy <samuelmurray@...> wrote:
Mark is, of course, free to do what he wants, but by capping free groups at 100 members he is essentially saying "no more free groups".  In most groups that I participate in, only 5-10% of members actively post, so "100 members" really means "5-10 members posting".  And one jiggabyte of storage sounds insane to me.  A 2000 member limit with 50 MB of storage would have made more sense.  But I'm not a techie -- perhaps that is the way modern pricing works: storage is cheap and signaling is expensive... is that right?
_._,_._,_

The average number of subscribers to each free group on Groups.io is 85. I don't know what the median is, but I suspect it's significantly lower than that.

I do appreciate all the feedback, please keep it coming.

Thanks,
Mark 


ro-esp
 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:42 PM, Chris Jones wrote:

Does a quiet group with 1000 members always cost you more than a busy one
with just a few dozen?
First define "quiet" and "busy".
50 posts a year vs 50 posts a day (....)

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Peter Cook
 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 05:50 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
The non-profit Enterprise discount will continue
Mark, the pricing page says "If you are legally recognized as a non-profit organization..." Can you clarify - are you specifically referring to 501(c)(3), 501(c)(4), or other designations? It would be helpful to have that spelled out.

Pete