moderated Premium groups now have more storage, basic group subgroups change
On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 08:16 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
It would appear my primary stated concerns remain unresolved.
See my response, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23585, "So what would be the appropriate sequence and timing to (1) create a new free group to receive the information presently in a Premium subgroup such that (2) transfer of such content is not lost when exercising the option to downgrade from Premium to free status at the end of the present paid period? Is there a way for a list owner to do such transfer within present Groups.io tools/procedures?
Mark responded, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23586, "Not sure I understand. You want to take an existing subgroup and make it a stand alone group? That feature doesn't presently exist.”
I responded, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23587, "I was responding to your statements to Samuel Murray today:
"On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 12:46 AM Samuel Murray <samuelmurray@...> wrote:
Your comment above is my first indication that my existing subgroup established under the temporary “Premium” membership purchased to get my groups transferred from Yahoo would disappear if and when we exercised the promised option to revert to a free group, i.e that it would not be “grandfathered”.
As you say, that feature may not have existed because there was no need for it. Since you now appear to have above defined a “new consideration”, my current response would seem both reasonable and appropriate.”
Mark responded: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/23603,
Any group that is created before this coming Wednesday at 9AM Pacific Time will continue to have the ability to create subgroups, regardless of whether they are basic or premium. Does that answer your question?
In a word, no. I am not concerned with the ability to create subgroups being “grandfathered”. You have made that clear.
Your recent pronouncement/interpretation that a group choosing to to “revert” to “free” (non-premium) status at then end of a “Premium” period must accept deletion “after a delay to ensure that the downgrade wasn't an inadvertent mistake on the part of the group owner” raises a new concern, that of ongoing survivability of any subgroups thus created.
I have been on Groups.io since November and yesterday is my first awareness of such retroactive intent. To my knowledge this was not mentioned in earlier discussions addressing a “Premium” group’s right to revert to a “free” group. Please consider:
Fact 1: We who purchased a year of “premium” status to get one or more groups transferred from Yahoo were promised the option to revert to “free” status at the end of the (paid) year.
Fact 2: Once my main group was “up and running” I exercised my “Premium” option to create a subgroup. I then requested Groups.io transfer everything (except members) from another Yahoo Group, and made all members of the main group members of the subgroup. Fact 3: This subgroup transfer was done without further charge and successfully accomplished.
For Groups.io to retroactively impose a requirement of ongoing “Premium” membership to preserve existing subgroups does not seem ethical. The ability of a “free” group to create subgroups means nothing if one must maintain “Premium” status to preserve them. Such subgroups should be “grandfathered”.
Fact 4: Of late it has been suggested that it is only a matter of time before a 1GB data limit applicable to the combined “storage” of a main group AND it’s subgroups, i.e. “collectively” be imposed; the present reality of each group and each subgroup having individual 1GB data limits being the result of ongoing difficulties of implementation, .
Fact 5: Anyone at present can create a new “free” group at any time with a 1GB data limit. Accordingly I would ask:
Are our respective existing 1 GB data limits “grandfathered” against retroactive change? I am concerned that any .5 GB data ”budget" limit thus retroactively imposed on one group with a subgroup could threaten the ability of each to function in the long term. If not, I have stated a desire to create a new “free” group with its own 1 GB data limit with the intent of moving everything presently in my existing functional subgroup to it. That would (a) assure each group would survive, and (b) have their own 1 GB data limit.
Alternately, perhaps another 1GB data could be made available at nominal annual expense for “free” groups needing it.
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 11:04 AM, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
Your recent pronouncement/interpretation that a group choosing to to “revert” to “free” (non-premium) status at then end of a “Premium” period must accept deletion “after a delay to ensure that the downgrade wasn't an inadvertent mistake on the part of the group owner” raises a new concernYour group(s) exist, therefore aren't subject to removal because they're grandfathered in. ONLY on groups created after tomorrow morning will it have any effect, and then only on newly created ones.
On 14/01/2020 18:03, txercoupemuseum.org wrote:
It would appear my primary stated concerns remain unresolved.I'm not GIO staff, so I can't be 100% certain, but everything that I've read in this thread leads me to believe the following:
If your main group was created before 15 January, then you will *always* have the ability to have subgroups (and create further subgroups), regardless of whether you currently have a free or paid package, and regardless of whether you upgrade to premium later and then downgrade to free again later in future.
After 15 January, subgroups are considered a premium feature. All groups that were created before 15 January will continue to have this "premium" feature. If your main group is created after 15 January, then "subgroups" is a premium feature, i.e. it is available to main groups that pay.
As with any ongoing premium feature, whenever you downgrade to free, you lose the premium benefit. It works like this in all web services, e.g. if we take a hypothetical online storage service that offers 100 GB for a gold package, and you then downgrade to a silver package which gives you only 20 GB, then you will lose 80 GB of storage.
[Mark's comment] is my first indication that my existing subgroup established under the temporary “Premium” membership purchased to get my groups transferred from Yahoo would disappear if and when we exercised the promised option to revert to a free group...No, look: Mark's reply was in response to my question. My question related to groups that are created after 15 January. I tried to make this clear in my question that I was not talking about groups that were created before 15 January, but I apologise if that wasn't clear.
Fact 2: Once my main group was “up and running” I exercised my “Premium” option to create a subgroup.No, you did not. Creating a subgroup at that time was not a "premium option". It was included in the free package. What you paid for was the transfer of your messages into the subgroup. *Creating* the subgroup was free. *Transferring* from Yahoo (into either the main group or the subgroup) was what you paid for.
The ability of a “free” group to create subgroups means nothing if one must maintain “Premium” status to preserve them. Such subgroups should be “grandfathered”.But they *are* grandfathered. What am I missing?
After 15 January, no free group will be able to create subgroups. Any subgroups that were created by main groups that were created before 15 January do not have to maintain "premium" status to preserve them.
Fact 4: Of late it has been suggested that it is only a matter of time before a 1GB data limit.......
Fact 5: Anyone at present can create a new “free” group at any time with a 1GB data limit. Accordingly I would ask:These are separate issues that I can't reply to.
On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 09:39 AM, Duane wrote:
Your group(s) exist, therefore aren't subject to removalI think I have subgroups. Therefore I am. :-)
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.