Topics

Please allow non-premium groups to "confirm" new members #suggestion

 

Premium restricted groups have a "confirm" button for new members who have applied by email and have not found and clicked on the confirmation email. But basic groups do not.

My block group, which is a basic group, is organizing for Covid-19 and is generating a lot of new members, some of whom have not confirmed and seem unable to. I realized this morning that we could do an end run around this issue by simply sending an invitation to anyone who has not confirmed.

Therefore, basic groups de facto have the ability to confirm new subs via this workaround. I am requesting that basic groups be given that permission/ability explicitly, via a "confirm member" button, rather than having to do the workaround. We can do it anyway. Please just make it easier.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

In fact, maybe this has been discussed before but it seems that in a restricted basic group, if the group requires a response to a questionnaire and receives a response, that should be sufficient to confirm the member. Maybe the problem is that the system doesn't keep track of whether there's a questionnaire in any given group? But it seems like overkill and requiring too much of people to both confirm and return a questionnaire, via two separate emails. Once we approve someone, we know they're legitimate and having to go around in circles with the NC situation (resend it, ask people to check their spam folders, explain why they need to do it, and in some cases, even just trying to reach them) is just an enormous PITA when they've already basically told us their name, rank, and serial no. 


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 9:46 AM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Premium restricted groups have a "confirm" button for new members who have applied by email and have not found and clicked on the confirmation email. But basic groups do not.

My block group, which is a basic group, is organizing for Covid-19 and is generating a lot of new members, some of whom have not confirmed and seem unable to. I realized this morning that we could do an end run around this issue by simply sending an invitation to anyone who has not confirmed.

Therefore, basic groups de facto have the ability to confirm new subs via this workaround. I am requesting that basic groups be given that permission/ability explicitly, via a "confirm member" button, rather than having to do the workaround. We can do it anyway. Please just make it easier.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:51 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
if the group requires a response to a questionnaire and receives a response, that should be sufficient to confirm the member.
This would be my preference for a change to the system.

Duane

 

My preference as well but may not really be doable, since it would require the system to keep track of whether or not a member returned a questionnaire. I think, though, that the group approving a member should be good enough. (Anticipating Shal: some groups may just approve everyone, even possible spammers etc. But I think that scenario is unlikely. Anticipating Shal: it's not unlikely. Etc. etc. etc.) I think at this point it might be best to take the lesser of all evils, which would be to eliminate some of this "confirm your membership" stuff wherever possible.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:24 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:51 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
if the group requires a response to a questionnaire and receives a response, that should be sufficient to confirm the member.
This would be my preference for a change to the system.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Leeni
 

The system doesn't have to keep track of whether or not a member returned a questionnaire. I use a pending membership questionnaire in my groups and I, the owner keeps track to see if one was returned. When I see they returned it, I approve the member.
 
After 2 days I do a search in my email by their email address to make sure I haven't overlooked them sending it back. If they didn't send one back to me, I send them another.
 
After that if they don't send it back, they are not accepted but can reapply providing they send that questionnaire back.
 
Leeni
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 3/19/2020 12:29:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Please allow non-premium groups to "confirm" new members #suggestion
 
My preference as well but may not really be doable, since it would require the system to keep track of whether or not a member returned a questionnaire. I think, though, that the group approving a member should be good enough. (Anticipating Shal: some groups may just approve everyone, even possible spammers etc. But I think that scenario is unlikely. Anticipating Shal: it's not unlikely. Etc. etc. etc.) I think at this point it might be best to take the lesser of all evils, which would be to eliminate some of this "confirm your membership" stuff wherever possible.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:24 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:51 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
if the group requires a response to a questionnaire and receives a response, that should be sufficient to confirm the member.
This would be my preference for a change to the system.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

 

I am remembering the bad old days before I made my main group a premium group, and all the hassles we had with NC members. It's happening all over again - having to post huge warnings on the home page telling people they have to respond to TWO emails, trying to contact people outside the system to tell them to check their inbox and spam folders, etc etc etc. I remember that back then, before I had a premium group, I thought the situation was unacceptable. I got over it and forgot all about it after making my group premium, because we could confirm our own members. Now it's happening all over again and I'm repeating that I'm finding the situation unacceptable. Something, anything, needs to be done.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:25 AM Leeni <leeniluvsgroups@...> wrote:
The system doesn't have to keep track of whether or not a member returned a questionnaire. I use a pending membership questionnaire in my groups and I, the owner keeps track to see if one was returned. When I see they returned it, I approve the member.
 
After 2 days I do a search in my email by their email address to make sure I haven't overlooked them sending it back. If they didn't send one back to me, I send them another.
 
After that if they don't send it back, they are not accepted but can reapply providing they send that questionnaire back.
 
Leeni
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 3/19/2020 12:29:33 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Please allow non-premium groups to "confirm" new members #suggestion
 
My preference as well but may not really be doable, since it would require the system to keep track of whether or not a member returned a questionnaire. I think, though, that the group approving a member should be good enough. (Anticipating Shal: some groups may just approve everyone, even possible spammers etc. But I think that scenario is unlikely. Anticipating Shal: it's not unlikely. Etc. etc. etc.) I think at this point it might be best to take the lesser of all evils, which would be to eliminate some of this "confirm your membership" stuff wherever possible.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:24 AM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 11:51 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
if the group requires a response to a questionnaire and receives a response, that should be sufficient to confirm the member.
This would be my preference for a change to the system.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 03:04 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Now it's happening all over again and I'm repeating that I'm finding the situation unacceptable.
Well, as you mentioned earlier, just send them an invitation and all is settled.  No change needed immediately, so further thought could go into which, if any, should be made.  Maybe add information to the pending notice that they may receive an invitation after responding, to cover those that don't handle the NC well.  Since this only applies to restricted groups, folks do have the option of removing that setting.  (After the recent spate of miscreants joining many groups for as yet unknown reasons, my groups will remain restricted for the foreseeable future.  I still get suspect applications now and then, though not as many.)

Duane

 

Not saying anything is needed immediately. Nothing is needed immediately. But something is needed. We are just stressed to the max around here with the group being organized around the pandemic, medical services being offered by professionals in the group, the perceived need to get everybody on board, etc.

I'm not sure what you're talking about because confirmation doesn't apply only to restricted groups.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Michael Pavan
 

The text of the Groups.io Confirmation message leads many applicants to believe they only need to respond to 1 email.

| Hello,
|
| Thank you for your interest in Groups.io and the group GROUPNAME@groups.io. To complete your subscription, please reply to this email.
|
| If you did not request - or do not want - a subscription to this group, please accept our apologies and ignore this message.
|
|
| Cheers,
| The Groups.io Team

On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:04 PM, J_Catlady <@J_Catlady> wrote:

telling people they have to respond to TWO emails,
It would help if it were revised to say something like:


Thank you for your interest in Groups.io and the group GROUPNAME@groups.io.

1) To confirm your Groups.io account, please reply to this email.
(This only confirms you can and want to receive messages from Groups.io at this email address)

2) The group GROUPNAME@groups.io may also require you reply to an additional email to complete your subscription.

If you did not request - or do not want - a subscription to this group, please accept our apologies and ignore this message.


Better yet, if it is for a restricted group with an active Pending Member message, it could say:
2) The group GROUPNAME@groups.io may require you reply to an additional email "<Pending Member message Subject>"

 

Exactly! I've complained about the text of the confirmation email many times before. It says to click to "complete your membership." In the case of a restricted group with a questionnaire, it does not complete the membership. But worse yet is that it tends to get lost into some sort of black hole, or spam, or whatever. People tend not to be able to even find it, which necessitates end runs around the system to try to contact them, explain the whole thing, etc. I think that in a restricted group, membership approval should be enough to confirm the member. Period.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:55 PM Michael Pavan <michaelpavan@...> wrote:
The text of the Groups.io Confirmation message leads many applicants to believe they only need to respond to 1 email.

| Hello,
|
| Thank you for your interest in Groups.io and the group GROUPNAME@groups.io. To complete your subscription, please reply to this email.
|
| If you did not request - or do not want - a subscription to this group, please accept our apologies and ignore this message.
|
|
| Cheers,
| The Groups.io Team

> On Mar 19, 2020, at 4:04 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
>
> telling people they have to respond to TWO emails,

It would help if it were revised to say something like:


Thank you for your interest in Groups.io and the group GROUPNAME@groups.io.

1) To confirm your Groups.io account, please reply to this email.
   (This only confirms you can and want to receive messages from Groups.io at this email address)

2) The group GROUPNAME@groups.io may also require you reply to an additional email to complete your subscription.

If you did not request - or do not want - a subscription to this group, please accept our apologies and ignore this message.


Better yet, if it is for a restricted group with an active Pending Member message, it could say:
2) The group GROUPNAME@groups.io may require you reply to an additional email "<Pending Member message Subject>"









--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 09:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think that in a restricted group, membership approval should be enough to confirm the member.
I agree entirely with that... the only problem is that it is quite common to get no response to the Pending Subscription message; even a couple of reminders can fail to get a response.

Chris

 

And the additional confirmation message adds another order of magnitude to the issue. It’s bad enough with just the pending questionnaire issues, but that seems like a necessary evil. The NC makes me want to tear my hair out. In the current case, these are known block neighbors who have provided their full names, street number, and phone numbers and I have to keep telling them “i apologize, but the system won’t let you in until you find and respond to the other email” bla bla. And resend it until they find it.


On Mar 19, 2020, at 3:18 PM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 09:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think that in a restricted group, membership approval should be enough to confirm the member.
I agree entirely with that... the only problem is that it is quite common to get no response to the Pending Subscription message; even a couple of reminders can fail to get a response.

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Duane
 

It just dawned on me that there's a super simple answer to this, and J mentioned it in the first message - Upgrade your group to Premium.  Confirming members is one of the things you get when you pay for a group, so I don't expect Mark to make it a free/Basic feature.  That would be one less reason for people to upgrade.

Duane

 

The other solution is to make a system change. I see no reason not to. It is not in my budget to support two premium groups, and the second one has less than 100 members. 


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 7:19 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
It just dawned on me that there's a super simple answer to this, and J mentioned it in the first message - Upgrade your group to Premium.  Confirming members is one of the things you get when you pay for a group, so I don't expect Mark to make it a free/Basic feature.  That would be one less reason for people to upgrade.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

We're not really talking about a premium feature. We're talking about removing a PITA. That should be standard, not extra.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 7:28 PM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
The other solution is to make a system change. I see no reason not to. It is not in my budget to support two premium groups, and the second one has less than 100 members. 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 7:19 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
It just dawned on me that there's a super simple answer to this, and J mentioned it in the first message - Upgrade your group to Premium.  Confirming members is one of the things you get when you pay for a group, so I don't expect Mark to make it a free/Basic feature.  That would be one less reason for people to upgrade.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Duane
 

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 09:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
We're not really talking about a premium feature.
Yes, we are.  "Edit email addresses & confirm members" is clearly labeled as a feature of a Premium/Enterprise group on the pricing page.

Duane

 

Well we shouldn't be. For the record, I asked for that feature years ago for premium groups, based on the fact that essentially, premium groups already confirm their own members since they can DirectAdd them. But the confirmation process is unnecessary in *any* restricted group, since the group has to approve members anyway. That should be sufficient. It may be listed explicitly as a premium group feature now, but I think that's wrong. What confirmation does is create a headache for everyone else. It's like advertising that "in a premium group, you won't be bothered with this annoyance." I think that is very wrong.

Bottom line, at this point I don't care personally because we're almost done getting the whole block into the group, after much ado. We are inherently limited in membership and will not have to go through this again.But other non-premium groups do. And they should not have to.

My two cents.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 7:48 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 09:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
We're not really talking about a premium feature.
Yes, we are.  "Edit email addresses & confirm members" is clearly labeled as a feature of a Premium/Enterprise group on the pricing page.

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu