On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 04:56 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Right now the following notifications are missing: delete file/photo/wiki page, close chat, add/modify/delete photo album. 

 

1) Should I add those as notifications that group members can send when performing those actions, with `Notify Members` checkboxes? 

I'm getting rather loud alarm bells now with the list of Notifications growing. I'm still mulling over the question of Notifications to Moderators but I can see that notifications to members could become contentious.

To my way of thinking with the list likely to become quite long it will be impossible for group owners (inc Moderators) to set up a one - size - fits - all notification scheme with the only balanced solution being the ability of individual members to be able to select the notifications that they want to receive from a pick list in the same way as they can select their (message) email deliveries now.

In addition, with many individuals being members of several groups if the decision is made by Owners then members will find different criteria applied in different groups when they would prefer to select notifications to meet their own individual requirements.

At the moment I cannot see a better solution to "the notification problem" than to put the decision in the hands of the recipients rather than group managers.

At the same time I, as a moderator, want or even need the ability to tidy up a Files or Photos section without generating a blizzard of notifications as a result. Left to themselves members can make an untidy and uncoordinated mess of Files and Photos and it occasionally needs moderator intervention to try to restore some sense of order. Excessively granular notification of uploads, deletions, edits (inc relocations) will just serve to generate frustration amongst a group's members so that has to be a way for a moderator to rework archive contents without triggering a notification at every turn.

A further thought about Polls; a Poll is a message with a specific question included, and as such is not a notification in the same way as an upload is. I would not want members to be able to suppress awareness of a  Poll by any means whatsoever. Choosing not to respond to a Poll is one thing; choosing not to know about it is another thing entirely. IMHO #poll-notice should not be a notification.

Chris

Mark,

Ok, so create a bunch of new per-moderator notification toggles under
the 'Notifications' section of each moderator's subscription, that
have to do with the various types of content on the site (ie wiki,
files, photos, etc), anything we send a #-notify message about.

Yes, I like that better than what I suggested.

The sending of these notifications to moderators would be independent
of whether the notification ended up being sent to the group or not.
The notifications to moderators would be what I'm currently sending to
the groups when the 'Notify Members' checkbox is checked.

In this scenario, I would keep the newly added group notifications,
along with their default-unchecked 'Notify Members' checkbox.

Is that right?

Yes!

I actually want to notify the group members in my social groups. In those I'd probably set "Notify Members" on by default if I could.

Probably not so much in my PTA group, but members have very little capability there (all but announcement only). All the Wiki, File and Photo content comes from the moderators.

That's like the concept of subscribing to notifications about
something. The creator of the wiki page would be automatically
subscribed to notifications of changes to it, with the option to
unsubscribe at any time.

Precisely. It may make sense to subscribe any member who edits the page also.

I'd also apply it to cases where someone (a moderator perforce, I think) edits the Description and other info about their Photos, Files, and Calendar events as well. I'm not sure what to say about Database tables (maybe yes) and rows (hm...), but the principle seems to apply there too.

Shal

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 08:41 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

I did not anticipate that these notifications would be shared with the entire membership

This is why I've been suggesting a separate controls/options page for when and to whom each notification is emailed out in a group. I think you need to be able to control if the notification is sent to just moderators, for example. I'm with you on the wiki changes, for one. All the time I've been requesting wiki change notifications, I never dreamed they would be sent out to the whole group, just to the mods. It also depends on who in a group has permissions to do these actions (e.g., upload files). In my group, only mods can do that so there's no situation where a member can upload a file and choose not to notify. Maybe notifications should be coordinated with permissions.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Mark,

I have changed the |Notify Members| checkbox when uploading files so
that it defaults to being unchecked, as before. I have also added new
|Notify Members| checkboxes when adding/updating wiki pages and when
uploading photos. They default to being unchecked.

I know that this is just a stopgap, but the directions many commenters are pushing make this mechanism unfit for purpose. At least for my needs.

My vision for the notifications overhaul was most fundamentally that I, as a group moderator, would get notification of group activity. Creating / editing content in any group area: all in. I did not anticipate that these notifications would be shared with the entire membership, and with that all the push-back that has caused.

If a member can choose not to notify me, if a group owner can decide not to allow notification of a given type of content, or of any type, then it doesn't suit the needs of a moderator who wants to actually moderate - which requires knowledge of what's being stored in the group.

Two things I think can help.

1) If the user chooses not to Notify Members, or if a Notification's hashtag controls would cause it not to be posted by email, send it to each owner/moderator by email, and/or web/app notification, regardless - subject only to that owner/moderator's Email and Notifications settings.

2) Under the same conditions, send/push it to the owner of the affected content anyway (unless it is they themselves taking the action). The concept here is to follow the precedent of Message editing, where the poster of a message is always informed of any edit. I'd like to see that concept extended to the other content a member may contribute.

Shal

Hi All,

I have changed the Notify Members checkbox when uploading files so that it defaults to being unchecked, as before. I have also added new Notify Members checkboxes when adding/updating wiki pages and when uploading photos. They default to being unchecked.

I think of this as a stopgap measure until I can address the issues raised in a more complete fashion. I will work to come up with a proposal either later today or Monday.

Thanks, Mark