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moderated Notify Members checkboxes #update


 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:27 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

I'd generally say no, except add/modify photo album. 


Should the photo notification setting be separate from the album notification setting? My gut says no, but want to make sure.

Also, I forgot database notifications, which don't exist anywhere right now. Would you want to know when a row was added, or just when a database was created?

My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll combine them.


Thanks,
Mark 


 

Row added.


On Jun 22, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 8:27 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

I'd generally say no, except add/modify photo album. 


Should the photo notification setting be separate from the album notification setting? My gut says no, but want to make sure.

Also, I forgot database notifications, which don't exist anywhere right now. Would you want to know when a row was added, or just when a database was created?

My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll combine them.


Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

sorry to nickel and dime this, but also, row updated
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 05:31 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Not quite. My point is that a moderator should have the option of not even originating a notification, whatever the member might select. cf now; if I upload a photo I can choose to send a notification or not; I want and need (as a moderator) the ability to edit an archive without notifications being generated.

As a general rule (and this is matter of personal choice) I will announce a tidy - up before it happens, and may later identify what has been rationalised as a result, but without specifying what I may have deleted / moved / edited in the process.
OK. That makes sense and I would typically follow the process you outlined too.

Andy


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 08:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Would you want to know when a row was added,
A row added notification would be helpful for me. And if my suggestion on limiting table sizes in https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25278 is implemented, one to say when a table is full too!

Andy


 

Chris,

Two reasons; I don't want anything I do to tidy up (say) Photos to
generate a blizzard of notifications (even to just one member), ...
The blizzard effect is something that needs a better solution than not notifying. Maybe that's aggregating notices, maybe something else we haven't thought of yet.

and I don't want to have to fend off the "why did you edit, move,
delete, whatever such and such" messages that are likely to accrue as
a result of a rationalisation process.
For edit I'd say the member deserves to know (and you likely deserve to fend off such questions). Maybe move too (if not notified the member might look and not find his/her content, and believe that it was deleted). I'm more willing to concede on delete: as J points out that's already a fact with messages.

Shal


 

Mark,

Should the photo notification setting be separate from the album
notification setting? My gut says no, but want to make sure.
I'll go with your gut. Also for File folders.

Also, I forgot database notifications, which don't exist anywhere
right now. Would you want to know when a row was added, or just when a
database was created?
I concur with others' comments: both row and table.

My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is
generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any
additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll
combine them.
I still have concerns about timeliness, but maybe it isn't such a big deal that I should worry about first-one-out delay.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25395

But it suddenly occurs to me that moderator notices (such as member/message approval) should not be aggregated, under any scheme.

And since every exception deserves an exception perhaps retain the one for Direct Add: only one notice need be generated (to the other moderators), not a "member joined" per address.

Or maybe "member joined" generally. Acceptance of an invitations if a mod sent out hundreds, or other mass-marketing of the group, could cause a flood. None of the rest seem like they should plausibly need aggregation.

Shal


Beth Weld
 

I have attempted to keep up with this discussion, and I have to confess that I have gotten lost.  As an aside, I was going to reply at the end of the topic, but there is no reply "button"  - so - Mark, sorry for replying to your original message.

As we talk about all of these notifications, I see way too many notifications in my future as an owner, for my moderators and for my members.
I do not want to receive a blizzard of notifications, and neither do my moderators or members.  As long as we can turn them off, I think it is great for others who need all of the tracking.  I already have people telling me that they receive too many messages so this is a sensitive subject for my group. 
Many thanks
Beth


Janice
 

As a group of longarm quilters, we rely a lot on the photos feature.  My members would like to have the ability to comment directly in the photo album of a particular quilt and they would also like a like/dislike button on each photo.  This would help to cut down on message traffic giving praises to the photo owner for their quilting.  They are very thankful for the new Notify Members check box. 

Thank you for all your hard work trying to please a large number of people.

Janice B
New Statler Siblings
Worldwide Long Arm Quilters 


 

Beth,

I have attempted to keep up with this discussion, and I have to
confess that I have gotten lost.
If it helps, I've been trying to keep track of the current implementation in a page on GMF's Wiki:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/21482

Shal


 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

 > My thinking with aggregation is that when an email notification is
 > generated, I'll wait N minutes to send it out to see if any
 > additional, similar email notifications are generated. If so, I'll
 > combine them.

I still have concerns about timeliness, but maybe it isn't such a big
deal that I should worry about first-one-out delay.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25395

For the aggregated notifications, if you're worried about timeliness, there's always web/app notifications, which won't be aggregated and are delivered instantly. Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

 
But it suddenly occurs to me that moderator notices (such as
member/message approval) should not be aggregated, under any scheme.

Agreed.

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App? These are the Chats/Files/Photos/Wikis/Database notifications.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 08:36 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?
I "vote" yes on this.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Mark,


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?

One more question, for the new moderator notifications, should they default the same as the existing moderator notifications? That is, should they default to Email And Web/App?

I concur with J, "Yes".

I think otherwise they're out of sight out of mind. Moderators should be a bit more resilient and ready to learn than rank-and-file members, so I don't mind as much giving them new things to learn.

Shal


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 03:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
The blizzard effect is something that needs a better solution than not notifying. Maybe that's aggregating notices, maybe something else we haven't thought of yet.
Perhaps so; the difficulty is identifying the "aggregation time". A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might easily not fit into a single Notification however long the aggregation time was.

For edit I'd say the member deserves to know (and you likely deserve to fend off such questions). Maybe move too (if not notified the member might look and not find his/her content, and believe that it was deleted)
I do understand the point you are making, but we have a wiki section about Files & Photo uploads* that makes it clear that the Group Moderators have the right to carry out such editing (in its widest sense) as they deem necessary. That being the case members' expectation of detailed notifications ought to be reduced.

It has the potential to be complicated...

* Which is not to say that anyone's actually read it.

Chris


 

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 8:50 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Also, currently the wait time to see if there are additional notifications is under 5 minutes.

"Currently"? Does this imply implementation is rolled out?


Sorry. Not any of the new notifications. We already have a system that combines notifications; it's currently only used for Github and Trello integration messages. Github especially can generate a bunch of notifications when you're manipulating a source code repository hosted there. It's also easy to generate a bunch of notifications from Trello. If you look back at the #trello messages on beta, they're an example of the combining system. And I was wrong about the timing. Right now, it's set so that if there are no additional notifications for 4 minutes after the first one, it sends out the original notification. If it receives a new notification in that time, it resets the clock for another 4 minutes. Right now it only resets the clock once, therefore there's a maximum of an 8 minute delay.


Mark


 

Chris,

A further possible complication is that any given "tidying up" session
might involve renaming an Album or Photo(s) or deleting an Album or
Photos, or moving a Photo; that list is not exhaustive. It might
easily not fit into a single Notification /however/ long the
aggregation time was.
That's an interesting point. For that use case the aggregation (or exclusion) would be better focused on the user than the activity.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to detect that automatically, but given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a sequence of the same event. Maybe only if the user is a mod/owner, but maybe not.

It has the potential to be complicated...
Too true. Sometimes simple to implement is not simple to use, and vice versa. Great things happen when you find a concept that makes the two align.

Shal


 

Chris,

I wrote:

given that the first event kicks off a timer it might be possible for
the software to look for a sequence by the same user as well as a
sequence of the same event.
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.

Shal


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 12:57 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
And given that such an aggregation wouldn't be tied to any single hashtag, perhaps it should be Moderated.

This gives the moderator the option to approve or not, which satisfies the desire for optional exclusion rather than aggregation.
Definitely worth considering. I am also concious that the more "individual" notifications that there are the more important it becomes that individual members can have a pick list of those that they (might) want and those that they don't. This raises another issue; someone chooses not to receive information about photo edits (however defined) but would that choice also apply to edits to a photo that they themselves had uploaded?

Traditionally office desks have In, Out, and Pending Trays. I cannot comment about civil service practice anywhere in the world other than the UK, but here we have a fourth tray called "Too Difficult". It's not difficult to see why.

Chris


Sandi D
 

Is what you are doing changing the concept of how notifications will function?
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated? That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so. They may find it easier to leave the group than to endure an uptick in notifications.

We have no photos, database and just a few files. Have used the calendar twice in our history. Have used the pool once. We don't make use of hashtags.

The wiki is our resource and reference. It links to current policy and directiveshoused off-sitem and a few files housed in the group. 

Whatever is being changed with hash tags, I hope I will be able to prevent a notification reaching them for superficial edits such as transferring content between pages, adding new pages to capture existing content, deleting information and pages that no longer serve a purpose (or conflict with changed policy) and fixing broken links, spelling and grammar. The only time I can envision a notification for a wiki change or a file change useful is if it is new information or a newly introduced policy.

--
Sandi Dickenson
ASG Volunteers Group


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:24 PM, Sandi D wrote:
Up until now the owners/mods determine if something reaches the attention of the members.

Will the eventual change mean that is negated?
Perhaps...

That notifications will reach the member unless they log in and change a setting?
I sincerely hope not. They ought to be able to suppress the worst effects by using the Mute this Hashtag function in the footer of a relevant email.

Two-thirds haven't ever logged in. I'm not sure I can convince them to do so.
A point that is, I think, common to many groups and one that is frequently overlooked.


Insofar as I can dictate policy to the group that I moderate that policy will be to set the various hashtags to "No Email" until a way of minimising the annoyance to individual members can be implemented. Although it would require members to log in my personal preference is a selection along the lines that exists for Email Delivery options now.

Chris