Topics

locked Notice of Pricing Change

 

Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal

Kevin Bess KK4BFN - SM NFL
 

That sounds like a good idea..

73,

Kevin Bess - KK4BFN


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S9 on the Sprint Network because it's hard to carry an HF radio in your pocket!

   

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 4:30 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Mark,


... As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups.

Please edit https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/22528 to reflect that change - the pricing page links to it.

My intention with the pricing change is solely to set up the business for long term success and to help offset the very large increase in my costs over just this past week.

I should have said so yesterday, but if it is even close to economically feasible you should push the effective date of the pricing change out to at least Nov 1st. As it stands you've whacked a bunch of Y!Group owners while they're still reeling from Yahoo's announcement. The near-zero-notice price change has not only caused much anguish but also a backlash of ill-will towards Groups.io, besmirching its reputation as a solid home for Y!Group refugees. The price change is a problem for many, but for many others the lack of notice is an even bigger issue.

Shal

Harm Selling <h.selling@...>
 

Hi Mark, Thank you for the reply.

My messages in this group were impulsive. So I removed them earlier this evening. I thought I signed up for your service for a one-time fee of 110 dollar, and no more, not now not in the future. But when I saw your notice I saw amounts of 220 dollar a year or a fee per group member.

The Yahoo group I'd like to transfer, has a member list of 1188 members. But that list is a result of almost 20 years (since the year 2000), without regular cleaning. I suppose only a small part of the members in the list is really active anymore.

The flow in the group is small, average 40-50 messages a month. In the past (the period 2003-2013) the flow was much larger, average 300-400 a month.

I'll wait for the Yahoo group transfer and after that I'll clean the members list, by checking the members, so I can remove the bouncing addresses and the members who don't reply. So I hope, to bring the members list into line with the real actual smaller size of the group.

Harm Selling

Bob J
 

I see no problem changing the prices, based on an obvious unforeseen increase of expenses.

However, all existing free groups should be given at least a month to be grandfathered into the Oct 21st price of $10 month/$110 a year with
any new optional transfer request being an additional $110.  This way existing basic/free groups could decide (within reasonable time)
to signup for premium before a price increase, or take the risk now to remain free, but might an even higher cost later with any
subscription pricing changes.

All new groups wanting premium or transfer services would fall under new pricing structure.  It's not price gauging to cover new unforeseen costs. Anyone
reasonable would understand the huge influx of yahoo groups caused a large unforeseen cost to GIO, as well as a necessary new revenue stream to cover those costs.
Bob

Pablo Sanchez
 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

  • Likes cats - check
  • Smart - check
  • Knows what the hell he's doing - check
  • Has a sense of humor - double check!
Seems like all the bases are covered!  <3 

-pablo

Bob Bellizzi
 

consider just how many people delayed transferring their group till "the right time" and Yahoo stompped on that, big time.
Consider that the sudden influx of yahoo groups' owners suddenly deciding, in one or two days, to move to groups.io.
Still that's an issue caused by yahoo. Finally consider where all of the suddenly needed server/archival/backup and other groups.io paid for services are going to come from.
Mark had two choices, Ignore the obvious requirement for infrastructure expansion or let everyone into an undersized  and unreliable system.
Please, as with refugees, new groups need "food and lodging" of a sort, hardware and storage/backup.  There is always a cost when new burdens are accepted.

--

Bob Bellizzi

monamouroui
 

Hi Mark,

I'd like to make a donation to a fund that would help pay transfer fees for those who cannot afford it. If you don't have one already, would you be willing to create one? But as a capitalist, I'd like to be able to make it tax- deductible. :)

Sara


On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 3:44 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

Sometimes I reflect on my youth, and harken back to that simpler time, that quieter time. You know, seven days ago.

 [Snip]

I realize it was a mistake to talk about future changes to the pricing structure without actually, you know, knowing what those changes might (or might not) be. As part of that, it was a mistake to change the definition of a free group right now. I've rolled back that change; new free groups do not have limits on the number of subscribers and subgroups. Hopefully this will address Harm Selling's concern, among others. Also, this means that any groups that wish to move over but cannot afford the transfer fee can still take advantage of a free group's invite feature.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.

Thanks,
Mark

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:12 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
consider just how many people delayed transferring their group
It's exactly that feature that's annoying when the panicked newcomers complain now. They were warned that yahoo was going down time and time again, but they poo-poo'd it. They had plenty of opportunities to move when the going was good. I'm not saying this is true of everyone who's jumping yahoo's finally sinking ship in desperation. But there are enough of them out there who were warned over and over again, and now those same people expect to be catered to. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

William Finn
 

May I suggest that anyone before the announced date is grandfathered in be they free or paid and anyone new as of the date gets the new pricing.

That way anyone who started the process before the new price announcement date did so based on the old pricing formats so they should be grandfathered into the old price list.



On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, 7:15 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 03:12 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
consider just how many people delayed transferring their group
It's exactly that feature that's annoying when the panicked newcomers complain now. They were warned that yahoo was going down time and time again, but they poo-poo'd it. They had plenty of opportunities to move when the going was good. I'm not saying this is true of everyone who's jumping yahoo's finally sinking ship in desperation. But there are enough of them out there who were warned over and over again, and now those same people expect to be catered to. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

deborah75001
 

Mark, THanks for changing the conditions again! 

Let us summarize the last days.

After the yahoo announcement I was trying to get my members to accept the transfer and figuring out how to collect the 110 dollars, under the first conditions.

then on the night of october 21st, we were told that it was either 110 dollars OVERNIGHT or else 220 dollars for the transfer and first year and then 220 dollars every additionnal year. Under these circumstances, I knew my groups would never follow and even more: that meant transfering with the knowledge of that transfer would NOT be sustainable and be able to survive after one year. So I declined.

Then on october 22nd, in the late evening, I find again another change: now groups would continue to be for free even if more than 500 members. So we were reverted to the first terms and conditions. Which I would have accepted, given that we need a little time to organize ourselves and we cannot do this overnight.

Many people on the YG have not yet even understood that the groups would close, that some of us are trying to migrate, that it will have a cost.
I cannot put down my credit card for paying the transfer of 2 groups without knowing my groups will reimburse me in some way. That needs a number of exchanges on our yahoo groups to organize !

So again: I think I can do the move at the 110 dollars cost. Not at the 220 dollars cost. And I need about 2 weeks to organize it, I cannot do this overnight.

Is there still a possibility or is it now closed?

Deborah from Paris, France.
Groups created on io october 21st.

deborah75001
 

answer to @catlady

It is easy to be sarcastic when you are already on io groups and have transferred a long time ago.

please understand that I am talking on behalf of several groups who are in FRAnce, with members and moderators only understanding FRENCH, who have no idea, who do not know io groups, who have no money and need help with their handicaped adopted children !

Do you think it is easy for them to understand that keeping their group will cost 110 dollars, even more 220 dollars, and this overnight notice, and then change again?
They are pretty freaked out to say the least.

I have not been present here all the time, had no idea Yahoo would close since they seemed to be going on after all ...

Nobody is happy with yahoo policies, but then this week has been really crazy. We have been submitted to pressure and variable deadlines overnight (remember we live in a different time zone and it is now 2 am in my country where I do not sleep yet).

So can we have an additionnal deadline for price increase, as this is far too short notice for us and many grassroots groups, of which moderators do need first to get the information and process it with their members ?

Deborah

GtownCycler
 

Is there any room for negotiation here at all? I created my group (a Freecycle group, so you can understand the mindset of the members) here on October 16, with the intent of migrating our existing group from yahoogroups (as many did, I am sure). I ran a "pledge drive" to raise the $110 Premium membership, finally getting the final donation this morning. Then I came here to upgrade my group, only to find that the cost had doubled with no warning whatsoever. I cannot go back the group now and say "whoops, sorry! Need another $110!".

If there's no way around this, I'll just have to refund the donations and go the free route. This was extremely disappointing after all the work I had put into raising the funds.

 

I don't understand something. Under the $110 fee we were going to be able to convert to free after one year. Is this still true? Because if it isn't, I don't think our group will be able to afford to stay here. That would be so sad after all the work we have done to get here.

Can someone please tell me?
Thank you

Susan B

 

Shal,
Thank you for your suggestions. I have had similar thoughts about this. 

Susan B

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 05:24 PM, deborah75001 wrote:
It is easy to be sarcastic when you are already on io groups and have transferred a long time ago.
I am far from being sarcastic. I am dead serious.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Janis
 

My two cents worth:

There are no ads showing in our groups and our personal pae on Groups.io  yahoo is not free. We pay for the service at Yahoo groups by having annoying ads in our medsage board and underneath the list of topics. Probably why they sre going away. I read that one of the reasons for YG shutting down the group online pages is that people are using thebemail and not visiting the group. So they are not seeing the ads. Advertisers do not like that!

It is wonderful to have my groups free of ads now.

And wonderful to be able to have a site that is transfering my members, files, photis, links and best of all message archives.

One of the groups I am a member of is going to Facebook. They cannot move the ir 16 years of messages, except by  saving a few in pdf files. And the group owner is spending everyday trying to move files.  They are also losing members eho dislike Facebook or who do not want to bother with it.

I am thrilled I found the Groups.io site. I only found out about it because one of my group members shsred an Apple News LifeHacker article with us. The writer recommended Groups.io as the best option for those of us abandoned by Yahoo Groups.  He listed a few other options including Facebook, but only recommended Groups.io. 

Janis

Janis
 

Mark, 
I think we all understand the havoc YG has caused by not announcing the website shut down months ago and giving groups more time to preserve archives, and find a new group home. I have even worried that your team would not be able to do all the requested transfers before Dec. 14. And we understand the extra cost incurred by your business sincd the YG announcement.by

The only issue is the short notice for the price change.  I actually thought one reason for the price change was to get everyone to hurry up and nmake a decision and get the transfer requests in ASAP so you have an idea how many you will have to deal with and can get all our YG stuff copied in time.
The short notice forced a decision for those of us waiting to upgrade. I found about the price change last night about 10 p m CDT and first thing this morning upgraded all 4 of my groups. 2 do not need transfers. The other two have transfer s started this morning. Glad I did it. We had a choice not to wait for the price change to take effect. I won't charge my members. It has always been my group and my sole decision to move here to save our message archives instead of abandoning the group.message

Thanks for your hard work and for keeping the site ad free! I just found out about this site a few days ago from a LifeHacker article on Apple. News. What a lucky find! 😄 I love Groups.io!

Janis

I like your cats too. You could probably have a place for all t he cat loving members to upload our cat photos!  Just for fun!

Maria
 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 09:49 PM, Janis wrote:
It is wonderful to have my groups free of ads now.
Isn't it?
You know what's also wonderful? To have:

- No farming of our data
- No submission of our data to ad tracking networks
- Barely any downtime in the past 3 years our group has been here
- Things actually work - unlike back when we too were on Y!groups
- frequent updates and improvements
- more features than Y!groups ever dreamed of

You have all heard the saying - if it's free, you are the product?
I think that's mostly true when it comes to other group platforms. They are either marketing your data or ad based.  That's their business model.
But not the one here.

And furthermore, even when it comes to that saying, Groups.io is an exception and reflects the integrity that drives it: they could exploit the groups that are hosted for free - but they don't.
Think about that.
Then think about how candid and straight forward it was to simply say that pricing for transfers needed to be adjusted to reflect a need to strengthen infrastructure and deal with this huge sudden influx.

So, seriously, for those with groups who are not helping them reach the financial goal to deal with the very reasonable transfer fee, please don't shift the burden of that problem on the service that is offering you a solution. It's not cool. I understand the frustration and I feel bad for all those who didn't read all the signs years ago that Y! was sunsetting it's service, but please figure it out, or ask for help on how to figure it out. It will be the best investment in your groups.

This platform is so worth it.

Maria

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:00 PM, Maria wrote:
please don't shift the burden of that problem on the service that is offering you a solution. It's not cool.
Yes! It reminds me of that fairy tale where the genie filnally lets the person out of the bottle, and the person kills the genie. Or something. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 08:08 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
the genie filnally lets the person out of the bottle,
someone else (not the genie) had trapped the person in the bottle :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu