moderated Moderator actions done by non-moderators? #misc


Andy I
 

(I wrote this as a #bug but I'm changing it to #misc, based on my suspicions.)

I was looking over Activity Log entries, and am puzzled by something.  The Activity log drop-down filter choice "Moderator changed member email" brings up two entries, that happened in April 2021 and January 2022.  But here's the problem.  Neither action was done by one of our group's Moderators.  Apparently, non-Moderators were able to edit other group members' email addresses.

Q1:  How did a non-Moderator edit someone else's email address?

Q2:  Why does the filter show these two entries for "Moderator changed ..." when they were not done by Moderators?

But wait, there is more; and it suggests a possible answer.  Searching for the two members who edited the email addresses, I can find no record of them.  Neither one is or ever was a member of our group.  The only record of their existence in our group is a single entry each in the Activity log, where they edited other peoples' email addresses.  If they were not in our group, perhaps they are employees of Groups.io.

Q3:  Were they Groups.io workers?  Do you put their names/emails into a group's Activity log when they do something affecting a group?

Suggestion:  If the answer to Q3 is Yes, wouldn't it be better to use a special username for actions done by Groups.io staff?

(As a separate note, I'll add that one of the two address changes apparently did not change the user's address.  The log shows that it changed from xxxxxx@... to xxxxxx@... - no change.  That address looks slightly familiar; I'm wondering why.)

Thanks,
Andy


Andy I
 

I have another problem with this.  Maybe it's unrelated.

One of the two members affected by "Moderator changed member email" seems to have vanished from the group.

He/she joined the group when it was a Yahoo!Group.  He became a member in Groups.io in 2019 when the group migrated from Yahoo to Groups.io.  Then in 2021 the non-Moderator ("Larry") edited their email address, but the address stayed the same.  Those two are the only two entries in the Activity log for that person.  There is no current or Past member with that address, and no record that it was Banned.  It just vanished!

How did that happen?

Andy


Andy I
 

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 03:22 PM, Andy wrote:
How did that happen?

I think I found an explanation.  The person is still a group member.

In 2021, someone (I'm assuming it is someone on your staff at Groups.io) edited the member's email address.  The Activity log shows the change but the old address is in BOTH places and it doesn't show what the address was changed to.  That's a bug.

By clicking on the 2019 address in the Activity log, groups.io uses their member ID number, which takes me to their current member page, where it lists their current address.  I'm assuming that address is the one it changed to in 2021, but it was recorded incorrectly in the Activity log.  (Or perhaps it was recorded, but the Activity log is unable to retrieve the new address now so it shows the old one.  I forget whether the Activity log records actual email addresses, or if it uses ID numbers which must be translated back into addresses.)

Andy


 

Andy,

I've seen this before.  What happened is that those members whose addresses were changed belong to other groups as well, and in one of those other groups a moderator made the email address change.  Because doing so affects the main account email address -which means it also affects all groups those members belong to- the entry is also added to all the group logs those members belong to.

At the time I didn't make too much of it because in my case it was me who made the change in a different group I manage and the user was a member of both of those groups.  That being said, the log entry for this scenario could stand some tweaking to indicate on which group this change took place which would then make clear what happened, maybe something like:

From:
John Doe <...@...> changed Jane Doe <...@...> 's email address from ...@..., via web

To:
John Doe <...@...> changed Jane Doe <...@...> 's email address from ...@..., group groupname, via web

Or something like that, as it would also clear up any possible confusion in the case a mod sees this entry in a free group which doesn't have the change capability, which was what had happened in my case back then, I had to use a different group to change his address as one of the groups was paid, the other free.

Cheers,
Christos



Andy I
 

Christos,

Very interesting.  That's something I did not consider.

I need to think about it.  I agree it should be changed.

Thanks,
Andy


 


On 2022-06-16 15:49, Andy via groups.io wrote:
The Activity log shows the change but the old address is in BOTH places and it doesn't show what the address was changed to.  That's a bug.

The way that particular entry is worded can be a bit confusing:

   John Doe <...@...> changed Jane Doe <new-address> 's email address from <old-address>

It would be clearer IMO if it said:

   John Doe <...@...> changed Jane Doe's email address from <old-address> to <new-address>

Cheers,
Christos



Bruce Bowman
 

Yes, admins of Premium groups can change the email addresses of their members. This affects the subscriptions of all groups that person may be participating in.

If I recall correctly, a log entry was originally only made in that group. A comment was made in beta to the effect that the same entry should propagate to other affected groups and the behavior was changed to do this.

Although this may seem mysterious to the uninitiated, I still think it's better than no log entry at all. It's possible that more detail could be added, but I'm not sure that would be any less confusing ("why are group abc's log entries appearing in my group xyz?").

Regards,
Bruce


ro-esp
 

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 09:50 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:

  What happened is that those members whose
addresses were changed belong to other groups as well, and in one of
those other groups a moderator made the email address change. Because
doing so affects the main account email address -which means it also
affects all groups those members belong to- the entry is also added to
all the group logs those members belong to.
I have my doubts about whether we should want it to be like this. Sometimes people WANT to separate subscriptions. Maybe they want to separate workmail from personal mail, or have some groups personal while sharing other ones with their significant other.

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Duane
 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 12:37 PM, ro-esp wrote:
I have my doubts about whether we should want it to be like this. Sometimes people WANT to separate subscriptions.
That's no problem, they just subscribe with the address they want for each group, though that requires separate accounts.

Duane


Andy I
 

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 11:20 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Although this may seem mysterious to the uninitiated, I still think it's better than no log entry at all. ...

I agree.

But I feel the log entry needs to show who that Moderator was, i.e., the fact that it was a different group's Moderator.

Andy


 


On 2022-06-16 23:20, Bruce Bowman via groups.io wrote:
It's possible that more detail could be added, but I'm not sure that would be any less confusing ("why are group abc's log entries appearing in my group xyz?").

I see your point.  One possible way of helping with that is to modify the log entry to display the group name the change took place in regardless for all "Moderator changed member email" entries, not just when done from another group, with the default being the current group.  Then also add a blurb about these log entries it in the Owner manual in the "Editing members' email addresses" Note: section. (come to think of it, we probably want to add that blurb in the manual regardless)

Another possible way could be to add a new log event, "Moderator from another group changed member email" but still that wouldn't make it visually obvious like the above.

Cheers,
Christos


Bruce Bowman
 

I don't want a log entry to bring to the attention of the admins of group abc that I'm subscribed to group xyz. At best, we can only mention that the change was performed in 'another group.'

Privacy and all that.

Bruce


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 04:20 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
admins of Premium groups can change the email addresses of their members. This affects the subscriptions of all groups that person may be participating in.
Unless they own another group or have aliases defined, then the change is not allowed.

Regards
Andy


Andy I
 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 06:11 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I don't want a log entry to bring to the attention of the admins of group abc that I'm subscribed to group xyz. At best, we can only mention that the change was performed in 'another group.'

Good point.  I have no need to know what other group; just the fact that it was a Moderator in another group is sufficient.  Moderator names not needed (if it's another group), and group names not needed.

Andy


 



On 2022-06-17 19:08, Andy via groups.io wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 06:11 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I don't want a log entry to bring to the attention of the admins of group abc that I'm subscribed to group xyz. At best, we can only mention that the change was performed in 'another group.'
Good point.  I have no need to know what other group; just the fact that it was a Moderator in another group is sufficient.  Moderator names not needed (if it's another group), and group names not needed.


Then something like this maybe, including or not the [part]

Moderator in another group [John Doe <...@...>] changed Jane Doe <...@...> 's email address from ...@..., via web

Or maybe reworded:

Moderator in another group [John Doe <...@...>] changed Jane Doe's email address from <old-address> to <new-address>, via web

Cheers,
Christos


 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:04 PM Christos Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

Then something like this maybe, including or not the [part]

Moderator in another group [John Doe <...@...>] changed Jane Doe <...@...> 's email address from ...@..., via web

It was supposed to be doing this, but the proper bit wasn't being stored correctly. For new log entries it will display this now.

Thanks,
Mark