Message to Member Anomaly #misc


Chris Jones
 

If an owner (or moderator) sends a message to a member with the member's entry in the Member List as the starting point then the resulting Message appears in the Activity Log. This is the method described in the Owners Manual, albeit without any reference to the Activity Log.

However, if the same owner / moderator sends the same message to the same member with the starting point being the "Email" tab in the Member Profile then there is no record placed in the Activity Log.

I have not labelled this as a #bug because I suspect that this behaviour may be deliberate, but it is not necessarily expected that the two methods will have different results.

Mark; can you confirm (or otherwise) that the two methods of sending a message to a member have subtly different outcomes by design, with there being no evidence trail of any message if it starts from the Member Profile? And if it is deliberate can I suggest that there is note to that effect in this section of the Owners Manual?

As far as I can see there is no difference in what an owner "sees" between the two methods so there is no warning that one route will not be recorded as an "Activity".

Chris


 

On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 1:54 PM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
If an owner (or moderator) sends a message to a member with the member's entry in the Member List as the starting point then the resulting Message appears in the Activity Log. This is the method described in the Owners Manual, albeit without any reference to the Activity Log.

However, if the same owner / moderator sends the same message to the same member with the starting point being the "Email" tab in the Member Profile then there is no record placed in the Activity Log.

I have not labelled this as a #bug because I suspect that this behaviour may be deliberate, but it is not necessarily expected that the two methods will have different results.

Right. The Email button in a member's profile page can, depending on permissions, be used by other members. It's meant as a DM type service, and is subject to rate limiting to prevent abuse. This is different from a moderator using the 'Send Message' button in a member's subscription page.

I don't have a particular opinion on whether we should log DMs or not in the activity log (as you noted, we don't currently). Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


Peter Cook
 

I'm glad this is being discussed because this just came up for me this morning. A rather sensitive message I sent to a subscriber (as me, not as the owner account) is now in the activity log for all moderators and owners to see, and I strongly prefer it not be there. Similarly, I don't need to see any other private messages sent by other owners or moderators.

If I had chosen to send this as the owner, I can see why one might want it to be logged, however.

Pete


Andy
 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 12:26 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I don't have a particular opinion on whether we should log DMs or not in the activity log (as you noted, we don't currently). Thoughts?

If they are logged at all, please don't include the message itself!  (As is now done for other moderator messages.)

Personally, I don't see the need to log every personal message as a log entry either.  Group activity, yes; private messages, no.

Andy


 

Yet another redo of a long, hard-fought battle to get these messages logged? For YEARS - years and YEARS - people were complaining that there was no record of a moderator message to a member. It would be easy to find the dozens of threads and complaints and bug reports about this here. I'm not going to do it. If that's what we're talking about, then please don't undo this. It was a serious lack.

As Pete says here, at maximum change it so that it's not logged if sent as an individual rather than from the mod address.  Mod messages to members need to be logged, and the details should continue to be included.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

Hmm.  Well if it was a long and hard fought battle, unless everyone in the group was battling only Mark, then there must have been considerable disagreement between members here.

In which case, one might say that a concensus may have been lacking.

But in any event, I wonder if this is a sign that there should be a better way.  Maybe?  If we struggle to find what's best, maybe we are going about this wrong.

Andy


Duane
 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 11:34 AM, Peter Cook wrote:
If I had chosen to send this as the owner, I can see why one might want it to be logged, however.
I've run into this myself and wondered why it works that way.  I seem to remember bringing it up quite awhile back, but can't find my message now.  If I chose to send it as Owner, then it should be logged.  If I select my own account/identity, then it shouldn't.

Duane


 

The only issue being debated was the length of the message taking up space in the log. There was talk of putting the message itself somewhere else, and including a link to it in the log. Which would have been fine and still would. Nothing else was debated. 

People requested this for years, here as well as in GMF (or so it was reported here), and it was a matter of it just not being implemented for years. There was no real debate then. It was just that kept failing to get done. 

The usual workaround was always posted (“just bcc yourself”). Which is too hard to find if the message is old. As I recall, suffering being told the workaround was like an initiation rite for new mods. They had to pass through the time-worn ritual of wondering why their messages to members were recorded nowhere, or how to find them (“how can I find” etc). Then some seasoned member would sagely tell them, “Just bcc yourself.” 

There was no debate about the necessity. The requests continued  for years and years, piling up and, I suppose, simply being put at the bottom of the pile of Mark’s pile of priorities.


On Nov 13, 2021, at 7:47 AM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

Hmm.  Well if it was a long and hard fought battle, unless everyone in the group was battling only Mark, then there must have been considerable disagreement between members here.

In which case, one might say that a concensus may have been lacking.

But in any event, I wonder if this is a sign that there should be a better way.  Maybe?  If we struggle to find what's best, maybe we are going about this wrong.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 08:36 AM, Duane wrote:
If I chose to send it as Owner, then it should be logged
Yes.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Peter Cook
 

On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 12:34 PM, Peter Cook wrote:
A rather sensitive message I sent to a subscriber (as me, not as the owner account) is now in the activity log for all moderators and owners to see, and I strongly prefer it not be there.
Fyi, along with my post to this group on 11/12 I also made a request to support to remove the entry, or at least the body of the included message, from my group's activity log. It hasn't been removed yet but I'm hoping.

Pete