Topics

moderated Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides


 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:18 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I just a gmail setting
"just found"
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

..and for the record, I had neither box checked when I ran the test. Will try more tests later today. Seems like "reply all" might be the gmail default if neither box is checked.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I just a gmail setting called "default reply behavior, reply or reply all" and will try to find time today to see how this interacts with the groups.io settings. This might be the key to the problem, but if so, it will not remove the problem in groups without trying to instruct everyone to set their gmail (or other) settings to conform with groups.io.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,


But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does,

I see you found the Gmail option to have the default Reply behavior be Reply All.

If that option is chosen then the reply arrow at the top of the message does Reply All, and the buttons on the bottom are reversed (Reply All to the left of Reply). Reply All then sends the reply to both the From address (the sender) and the To address (the group) of the original message.

I don't think there's anything Groups.io can do about this Gmail behavior, except possibly to warn about it.

The only mitigation I can think of would be to silently swallow the message to the group rather than bounce it, but that would be a violation of email standards, and might well lead to more severe confusions. Modifying the original message's To address to be something other than the group posting address might help, but could also be problematic (e.g. the member might have their email filter for the group based on the To field).

That option (making Reply All the default behavior) is not unique to Gmail.
Shal


 

Shal, yes, that appears to be the problem. However, I still don’t understand why ‘reply only to sender’ uses the gmail setting (whatever the person has it set to, even if they, like me, are clueless about the default) whereas ‘reply to sender’ overrides it and creates a PM directly to the individual and not to the group. This still seems problematic and misleading to me, but I haven’t had time yet to sort through the whole new scheme. If I’m honest, I may never have time and I’m hoping that at Mark will consider at least this particular issue at this point.


On Nov 1, 2018, at 10:03 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,


But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does,

I see you found the Gmail option to have the default Reply behavior be Reply All.

If that option is chosen then the reply arrow at the top of the message does Reply All, and the buttons on the bottom are reversed (Reply All to the left of Reply). Reply All then sends the reply to both the From address (the sender) and the To address (the group) of the original message.

I don't think there's anything Groups.io can do about this Gmail behavior, except possibly to warn about it.

The only mitigation I can think of would be to silently swallow the message to the group rather than bounce it, but that would be a violation of email standards, and might well lead to more severe confusions. Modifying the original message's To address to be something other than the group posting address might help, but could also be problematic (e.g. the member might have their email filter for the group based on the To field).

That option (making Reply All the default behavior) is not unique to Gmail.
Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

J


Shal, yes, that appears to be the problem. However, I still don’t understand why ‘reply only to sender’ uses the gmail setting ...

Because you're composing the reply in Gmail. They populate the To and CC fields of the reply using their own rules and settings to choose content from the original message's fields (From, To, CC, Reply-To, etc.).

In the case of Reply Only To Sender messages Groups.io does not insert a Reply-To field in the original message, so Gmail (and other receiving email interfaces) would normally reply to the From address.  I don't think it would help in the Reply All case if Groups.io did supply a Reply-To field - I think Gmail (and others) would include that content in the reply but would likely still include the original message's To address (the group).

... whereas ‘reply to sender’ overrides it and creates a PM directly to the individual and not to the group.

I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.

My guess is that it doesn't, that the Reply All does in fact return to the group as well, and it is the lack of a bounce that made you think otherwise.

Shal


 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:19 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.


As an aside, this is a big reason I want to complete the app and add unread message tracking (ie Groups.io Inbox). I cannot control a lot of the experience of reading messages with the various email clients. And I have no control whether an ESP decides to accept email from us (ie cox.net is delaying a lot of email from us right now), or mark our messages as spam. Having our own email client just for Groups.io messages will give users an option to have a better experience with our groups.

Mark


 

That will be awesome. I am convinced that about half our pending members never receive the notice with the questionnaire, and I've frankly given up trying to contact people offlist when that occurs.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:47 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:19 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.


As an aside, this is a big reason I want to complete the app and add unread message tracking (ie Groups.io Inbox). I cannot control a lot of the experience of reading messages with the various email clients. And I have no control whether an ESP decides to accept email from us (ie cox.net is delaying a lot of email from us right now), or mark our messages as spam. Having our own email client just for Groups.io messages will give users an option to have a better experience with our groups.

Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu