moderated Group home page redesign


 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:51 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

The truncated description was a bug and will be fixed (the idea is to have a link to expand it).

I had written a whole message about that, now superseded by your reply to J that the Description text will not be collapsed. Yay!

Sorry for the wasted work. :-)

 
My thinking: the group's home page description is a group's one-and-only shot at conveying information about the group to a non-member before that person decides to click the Join (or Apply) button. Anything that gets in the way of that presentation has me skeptical at best.

Agreed! That was the reason why I did this.

Thanks,
Mark 


Nina Eppes
 

> Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why?

I look at my group's home page, and the home pages of our two subgroups, pretty regularly, but I doubt many of our members do. I use the description as a place to put some reference information (where to find info about upcoming concerts and such) and would like it to remain fully visible at the top of the page. We're mostly an email-oriented group, but I do encourage members to go to our Groups.io website to find information.

I do have a suggestion/request: Can the cover photo area at the top of the home page be reduced (or have different size options)? The current size seems unnecessarily large to me and takes up a lot of real estate on the page.

- Nina


Samuel Murrayy
 

On 2019/06/14 12:27 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

The goal is bring more information to the group home page and make it more dynamic.
The problem is that different types of information are relevant to different types of users. I think the home page is likely to be visited by newly subscribed users and users who consider subscribing. Older users will more likely bookmark the threads page or want to go do it directly after they've seen the home page. Only in very few cases would users need to see information like "top hashtags", "group information" and "group settings".

So, I think you should design the home page so that the entire portion below the group image is reserved for whichever way the owner wants the home page to look, followed by a few collapsed sections (which can expand if the user clicks on it). Sections like "top hashtags" and "group settings" should be collapsed by default.

I think it's a bad idea to start with the most important and likely most wanted information *collapsed*. I know some people thing it's fancy to start things collapsed and expect users to click to expand it, but collapsing by default should be reserved for things that are less important -- not for things that are *more* important.

The only users who will enjoy a page with lots of collapsed content, are mobile users, for whom having to tap on various elements of a page makes the page seem "dynamic" (i.e. less boring).

The home page is the URL that you tell people about when you want them to visit your group and consider joining it. What elements are expanded or collapsed should be based on that consideration.

Samuel



Thanks,
Mark


Samuel Murrayy
 

On 2019/06/14 01:28 AM, Duane wrote:

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:28 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

The goal is bring more information to the group home page and make
it more dynamic.
Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.
I agree. In fact, it may be counter-productive to show the "top" or "most recent" threads on the home page. It can create the wrong impression about what sort of content is most common in the group. If the new home page UI is finally finished, and showing the most recent threads is optional, I'll definitely disable it.

I understand the urge to put as many little curious and interesting bells and whistles on the home page as possible, to make it look nice and fun, but the home page should first and foremost be *useful* and serve its main purpose.

Samuel


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 02:25 PM, Samuel Murray wrote:
Sections like "top hashtags" and "group settings" should be collapsed by default.
I am less sure about Group Settings being collapsed but I would certainly prefer to see Top Hashtags disappear completely. I definitely don't want to see then occupying such a large "in yer face" banner as they did on Home Pages until the scheme was reverted.

Different groups will use hashtags to different extents ranging from "not at all" to "extensively"; OK so the "not at alls" will have no hashtags visible, but the "sparinglys" will. On the group I moderate subscribers are not able to create hastags, and the list of those they can use is small. Moderators have access to several others. I also suggest that the impact of hashtags depends largely on whether subscribers use the web UI or email, so to make them such a "big feature" on the Home Page may not serve any useful purpose.

I can live with them as the currently are but IMHO having them as prominent as they are here on beta (at the moment) is not really of any discernable benefit.

Chris


Ellen Moody
 

I run two groups which read books together. Each Friday I post where we are in the schedule. We also have a plan for future books on one of this lists. I reproduce the URL to the home page each Friday to help people situate themselves so I go over there at least once a week.

Ellen

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 8:32 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi Duane,

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:28 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

At the very least, I'd like to see all of the 'new' items moved to the bottom (below Group Email Addresses) and the description restored to full view.  Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.  All of the information I see, except for Top Hashtags (which I'd rather not have anyway), is on the Feed page and I'd rather not have it cluttering the Home page.

Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why? I think of the group home pages as advertisements to prospective members. Making them look nice and displaying useful information helps give prospective members a better idea about what a group's about. As a group owner, I never look at my group home pages at all.

Thanks,
Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

More than half of page hits are now on mobile devices these days. I do understand the desire to make the group home page more mobile-friendly, and I've been doing some similar work on the sites that I webmaster. Making your site "look good" on screen widths that can vary between 320 and 1920px and up is a real challenge (understatement of the year).

As I look at the current home page layout, the hashtag links are too close together, and impossible to tap individually. Something needs to be done here. Spacing them out horizontally makes sense, but they do kinda take over the page on a desktop, especially for those groups that really don't use them for anything.

I support the suggestion to have group options that makes select sections disappear from the home page entirely. Failing that, collapse/expand buttons -- with settings perhaps remembered via a cookie -- would enable the user to customize their own experience with the site.

Regards,
Bruce


Jean Bennett
 

I would respectfully disagree with reducing the cover photo size (unless it can be optional at the group level). We use the cover photo as a masthead to display our art and change it every two weeks for the benefit of our members. 

Jean


Maria
 

I am totally in favor of redesigning the group home page. I think the fact that most of us here agreed that the default start page for a group member to land on ought to be the messages page (see past topics) is a clear indication that the home page has been stagnating and its potential not explored and overlooked.

I like that the redesign is trying to be helpful to new members - new groups.io users and give them an overview of the group activity and areas, and from there you should be able to then decide what section of the group to navigate to. For those groups with subgroups and where members may be in a few subgroups, an overview is even more important. I'd agree that a more dynamic, less static home page is better. Also, we really need to deal with the fact that so many users access groups.io via mobile devices on small screens, so to have a home page that is all text is a bad idea and doesn't remotely look modern. Even media and newspapers break it up with white space and different elements.

The page just needs some design tweaks so that it feels more balanced in terms of visual elements.
But it's in the right direction.
Much better.

Maria


Bob Bellizzi
 

Why even have hashtags info on the home page?  Members seldom go the the home page after joining.
Like J, we only use them for calendar and special notices and don't allow regular members to use hashtags.
The space taken up on the home page is wasted on Newbies who likely will puzzle wondering what a hashtag is.

--

Bob Bellizzi


 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 02:38 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
Like J, we only use them for calendar and special notices and don't allow regular members to use hashtags.
I actually do use hashtags for other than calendar and special notices. (I actually don't even use them for the calendar because I don't use the calendar.) They simply are not very important in my group. I would not remove them from the home page, but I don't want them to stand out as a big deal there, either. Like Duane, I'd like the option to remove the hashtag section from the home page, but it's not a biggie for me. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the group description gets its proper due on the home page, hashtags are entitled to their crumbs. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

> Different groups will use hashtags to different extents
> ranging from "not at all" to "extensively"; OK so the "not
> at alls" will have no hashtags visible, but the "sparinglys"
> will.
 
On my groups we don't use hashtags. Those that might show up are remnants from old subject lines from posts on Y!, and I've gone back through most of those posts to substitute something in place of octothorpes in the old subject lines. Yet the heading of Top Hashtags shows up, even though there's nothing under them.
 
I would suggest that if Top Hashtags can't be made optional, at least make it disappear if there are none.
 
Dano


KWKloeber
 

What are ”Active Topics”?
All else are inactive, ie locked?

or is it attempting to present “Most-recent Topics”?


KWKloeber
 

Or “Most-recent Activity”
Or ”Most-used Topics”
Or...?


KWKloeber
 


 
On my groups we don't use hashtags.
Dano
Try to even get them to use Topics intelligently is a  challenge for which I’ve officially thrown in the towel. I’m not sure the language (Swahheily?) to use for “start a fresh email with a new subject “
 I digress. 

** never-ending and meaningless option poll developing again.”
How about a one-line # and then a drop-down option? If they are critical to your group, instruct them. Or put it in the group info. Would that suffice as a compromise. 


 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 11:16 PM, D R Stinson wrote:
at least make it disappear if there are none
I think Mark implied that was the case, when he suggested that if I don't want to see hashtags on my group's home page, I could just delete all hashtags. We unfortunately can't test this out without a temporary per-group trial page for the new design.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 11:16 PM, D R Stinson wrote:
at least make it disappear if there are none
I think Mark implied that was the case, when he suggested that if I don't want to see hashtags on my group's home page, I could just delete all hashtags. We unfortunately can't test this out without a temporary per-group trial page for the new design.
--
J

Thanks for that prompt, J. It never occurred to me that owners and moderators can't see the same home page as others when they are logged in. Indeed, that does seem to disappear for the group I deleted all the hashtags from, after I sign out of groups.io.

In replying to this I happened across Mark's post of 2018-10-19 (#18799) regarding replies to hashtags, and I must say, I'm glad we don't use them. We'd have some members so confused!

Dano


 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 10:52 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
It never occurred to me that owners and moderators can't see the same home page as others when they are logged in. Indeed, that does seem to disappear for the group I deleted all the hashtags from, after I sign out of groups.io.
Now *I* am confused. I was referring to the hashtag section disappearing when all hashtags are removed, in the *new* design. I didn't realize this was already the case in the current design, nor did I think non-members could see any hashtags at all. Are you sure your non-member view doesn't see hashtags on the home page simply because non-members don't see them anyway?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 10:52 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
It never occurred to me that owners and moderators can't see the same home page as others when they are logged in. Indeed, that does seem to disappear for the group I deleted all the hashtags from, after I sign out of groups.io.
Now *I* am confused. I was referring to the hashtag section disappearing when all hashtags are removed, in the *new* design. I didn't realize this was already the case in the current design, nor did I think non-members could see any hashtags at all. Are you sure your non-member view doesn't see hashtags on the home page simply because non-members don't see them anyway?
--
J

I can't confirm that detail, J. The group has had all the hashtags removed, but I don't have a group membership that isn't an owner or moderator.

Dano


 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 11:12 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
I can't confirm that detail,
I can. I just checked a private-archives group that I'm not a member of and that I know uses hashtags, and I can't see them. I think the hashtag display does go away in the new design if there are no hashtags, based solely on what Mark said before.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu