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moderated Gray out option for mods to receive notifications without the corresponding permissions #suggestion


 

I seem to remember (although it may be wishful thinking) Mark making it so that only mods with the corresponding permissions had the options to receive notifications. This was something I requested at one point and I thought it had been changed. But it hasn't. Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc. Did I imagine the statement about the fix? It's very difficult to traverse all the notification threads at this point.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable  by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.


On Jan 1, 2021, at 3:27 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I seem to remember (although it may be wishful thinking) Mark making it so that only mods with the corresponding permissions had the options to receive notifications. This was something I requested at one point and I thought it had been changed. But it hasn't. Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc. Did I imagine the statement about the fix? It's very difficult to traverse all the notification threads at this point.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:40 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable  by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.
After a bit of basic testing it seems that if a mod has been granted 'Set Moderator Privileges' then they can turn notifications on and off in the Moderator Notifications panel of their membership record. Without 'Set Moderator Privileges' the Moderator Notifications panel doesn't show so they only get what the Owner has set for them.

Andy


 

Great, thanks for checking that out. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 1:24 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 11:40 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
OTOH after posting this I know only that I, as group owner, can set mods with no permissions to receive the notifications. But I don’t know if the mod themself can opt to receive the notifications. It’s possible they are selectable  by me but not by the mod in their view of their member page. I haven’t tested that yet.
After a bit of basic testing it seems that if a mod has been granted 'Set Moderator Privileges' then they can turn notifications on and off in the Moderator Notifications panel of their membership record. Without 'Set Moderator Privileges' the Moderator Notifications panel doesn't show so they only get what the Owner has set for them.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Actually, never one to believe what someone else tells me without proof, I just logged into a different account which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges. The notification panel was there and all notifications were available to me.

Also, while logged in as myself, I went into the two other groups i'm on a mod in, and in which I definitely do not have "set moderation privileges." Same thing.

So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.

Thanks.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy


 

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect. We would expect notifications to be available corresponding to privileges, regardless of “set moderator privikeges” - e.g., mod with “approve pending member” privileges can opt to receive pending member notifications, mod with “approved pending message” messages analogous, etc. I don’t see what “set moderator options” has, it should have, anything to do with this.??? So I am perplexed. In any case I’ll run my tests again. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:34 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

(typo - “set moderator privileges,” not “set moderator options”)


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:42 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect. We would expect notifications to be available corresponding to privileges, regardless of “set moderator privikeges” - e.g., mod with “approve pending member” privileges can opt to receive pending member notifications, mod with “approved pending message” messages analogous, etc. I don’t see what “set moderator options” has, it should have, anything to do with this.??? So I am perplexed. In any case I’ll run my tests again. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:34 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok, thsnks, that’s weird. I’ll do it again and see what happens. 


On Jan 2, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Hi J,

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 10:35 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
So Andy, how did you test this and find that notifications are available only if "set moderator privileges" is set? Because I'm seeing otherwise.
From my Owner account, I removed 'Set Moderator Privileges' from my Mod account. I then logged in with my Mod account and the Moderator Notifications panel was no longer accessible/visible in the membership record.  From my Owner account, I checked 'Set Moderator Privileges' again and the Moderator Notifications panel was then visible/accessible again from my Mod account membership record,

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect.
That maybe the case. However your original assertion was that "Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc" and that is not the case as I see it because if they don't have 'Set Moderator Privileges' they cannot change the notifications they receive as they don't see the panel where those options can be set.

Regards
Andy


 

I totally get what you’re saying you’re seeing, but I have a mod with zero privileges - none - who still sees the panel when logged in. Which was why I said “any subset.” I’ll double check, as I said. I may not be fully caffeinated yet...


On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:52 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 02:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
ps I have to say, what you saw also sounds like not what we want or would expect.
That maybe the case. However your original assertion was that "Any mod, with any subset of permissions (including the null set), can elect to receive notifications for anything: pending members, pending messages, etc" and that is not the case as I see it because if they don't have 'Set Moderator Privileges' they cannot change the notifications they receive as they don't see the panel where those options can be set.

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I tested this again - caffeinated - and am still seeing exactly what I reported before:

1. I gave my test mod zero permissions - none - in my test group (including no "set moderator privileges").
2. I log in as the test mod and go to that same group and look at the member page. The complete notification panel is there and all notifications are available for selection.

So I am still reporting this as a bug, only because I thought Mark had said the filtering had been implemented before - I could be misremembering - and/or suggestion.

If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee. Are you sure you're going to the same group pre- and post-logging in as the non-owner mod?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 08:43 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
and look at the member page.
more accurately: and look at the subscription page
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I do see the effect you note, Andy, in regards to the moderator permissions panel, which is as it should be - you should see the moderator permissions panel if and only if you have "set moderator privileges" permission. But it does not happen in my tests with the moderator notifications panel, which also is as it should be.

So maybe we are talking about two different things. I am reporting that the moderator notifications panel in the mod's own subscription page is not filtered according to the actual permissions that the moderator has, and I am requesting that it be filtered.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 04:43 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee.
I have done similar tests and would support Andy's point. I have two memberships of someone else's test group, where as a general rule everyone has moderator status. Using my "main" membership I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, leaving other checked boxes unchanged. I then logged out, and logged back in using my second membership. The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.

One thought; when you changed the permissions did you remember to Save the change? I ask because I nearly forgot...

Chris


 

Chris,
Thanks for the sanity (or insanity?) check. This is really weird. I've done it about five times now, not trusting myself, but will do it again. Pretty sure I'm saving because I log out and back in each time.


On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 9:01 AM Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 04:43 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
If you, Andy, are doing the same sequence and seeing something different, maybe I just need another cup of coffee.
I have done similar tests and would support Andy's point. I have two memberships of someone else's test group, where as a general rule everyone has moderator status. Using my "main" membership I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, leaving other checked boxes unchanged. I then logged out, and logged back in using my second membership. The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.

One thought; when you changed the permissions did you remember to Save the change? I ask because I nearly forgot...

Chris


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I just went through the whole sequence again, with the same results. I can't drink any more coffee or I'll be on the ceiling. (Have switched to tea;). I'll leave it to Mark and/or others to sort this out.

Bottom line: I have a non-owner moderator in my test group with no permissions who has the complete panel of notification options available in their subscription page. Toggling this mod back and forth between set-moderator-privileges on and off has no effect. The complete notification panel is available no matter what.

I'll leave it at that for now. I am concerned about this from a practical point of view because, as I said originally, I just promoted someone to moderator status in my group and I am concerned about her having the abiity to elect to see notifications she should not. So unlike in some cases where I comment in beta, it's not just an intellectual curiosity.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


billsf9c
 

which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges....

What am I missing?!?
A MOD with No Priveleges...
Cannot Moderate.

They would be as a Member.

BillSF9c


 

It means I haven't checked any of their privilege boxes. It's a test case. 
It does not make them a (non-mod) member. They have a subscription and member page in the moderator template.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 9:24 AM billsf9c via groups.io <OOWONBS=Netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
which is a mod in my test group but with no privileges....

What am I missing?!?
A MOD with No Priveleges...
Cannot Moderate.

They would be as a Member.

BillSF9c


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 09:01 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I removed my second membership's Set Moderator Privileges, .... The list of checkboxes had vanished, as had the ability to select Moderator Notifications. I then reversed the process and lo! my list of selectable notifications had reappeared.
I would say again, as before, that if this is happening, it's a distinct and even weirder bug. Toggling "set moderator privileges" on and off should have no effect on the mod's abiltiy to select relevant notifications. Turning it off should not wipe them all out. In any case, I am not seeing this at all, for some reason.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu