moderated File listing order changed? Why? #suggestion #fixed


Andy
 

Today, the order of files in a Files listing has suddenly changed.

Before, in the default view (Name selected), it showed Folders first, followed by non-folder Files.  Within each group, they were sorted alphabetically.

Today, it sorts both Folders and Files by name. so some Files now appear mixed in with the Folders, when using the default view.

I suggest not tampering with how it displays, unless there's a reason and maybe a heads-up.  Maybe I am just resistant to change; I don't like sudden surprises.  We also arrange our files to try to make it more obvious what people should look at; and sudden changes like that can mess it up.

(As a side-note, I wish that Groups.io had better flexibility to help us arrange those files.  Yahoo!Groups allowed filenames with leading spaces, which forces them to appear first, at the top of the list.  Groups.io doesn't allow that.  Bummer, but we can live with it.)

Andy


Duane
 

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 05:48 PM, Andy wrote:
Today, it sorts both Folders and Files by name. so some Files now appear mixed in with the Folders, when using the default view.
I'm pretty sure this is a #bug that slipped in, possibly related to work on https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/29424 and/or https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/oddity_in_files_some/82785175

Duane


Andy
 

One consequence of this change is that we can no longer even guess whether something is a file or a folder, after doing a Search within files.

Before, at least the folders were near the top.  Now they are scattered all over.  Ugh.

Andy


 

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 4:35 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
One consequence of this change is that we can no longer even guess whether something is a file or a folder, after doing a Search within files.

The icons next to the names are different. The file type is different. I'm happy to make changes to the display; what else can I do to make files and folders more easily distinguishable?
 
Before, at least the folders were near the top.  Now they are scattered all over.  Ugh.

This is the way it behaves on the Mac. I don't remember whether it's the same on Windows. Sorting by Type will group everything appropriately (once some more bug fixes go out).

I made the change as part of a set of bug fixes I'm still working on for the files search; as part of that I have to reindex everything and that takes about 8 hours. I can change it back, but I'd like to get some more opinions first if possible.

Thanks,
Mark


Duane
 

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 07:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I don't remember whether it's the same on Windows.
It is on Win7.  I'll wait on Type for a day or two.

Duane


 

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 05:24 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I'd like to get some more opinions first if possible.
I like it better this way. However, I don't like the new icons and agree it's now really hard to tell which are files vs. which are folders. Can you restore the old ones?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

Mark wrote, "The icons next to the names are different."

But that's the thing -- they aren't!  Folders now have both folder-icons and regular file-icons, so you can't use the icon to tell them apart.

Before today, the default order had the folders at the top so you could probably tell them apart, but might not be able to see where the folders ended and the regular files started.  Now, you can't ell anymore!  If it has a folder-icon, then it's a folder.  If it has a regular file-icon, it might be a folder or it might be a file.  See https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/29420.

Mark also wrote, "Sorting by Type will group everything appropriately (once some more bug fixes go out)."

OK.  I'm glad you're fixing that.  I'll wait for it.  So, will it put ALL the folders together even when some are identified as "Files"?  Or will it group them with the regular files?

And finally, "... I'd like to get some more opinions first if possible."

I have a big one related to Files, but it is not about the file listings.  I think it's a separate issue.

Andy


 

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 07:34 PM, Andy wrote:
But that's the thing -- they aren't!  Folders now have both folder-icons and regular file-icons,
I'm not seeing this. The folders have horizontal icons and the files have vertical icons. They're different. I don't see any of them having both ???? The problem is that they don't look different enough from each other. It's hard to remember now, but I think the folder icons used to be blue? Now they're both black and approximately the same shape, except that the folder icons are sideways. They're not distinct enough from each other and you need to look closely to see which is which, whereas before, it jumped out at you.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

I wrote that incorrectly and it could be confused.

I didn't mean that folders have both icons at the same time.  It is one or the other.  But (see https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/29420) after doing a Search in Files, some folders are identified as "File" instead of "Folder", and the ones that say "Files" have the vertical file-icon rather than the horizontal folder-icon.  As a result, the folders are displayed with a mixture of both kinds of icons, and you can't use the icon to tell whether it's a folder or a regular file.  Unless it has the folder icon, and then it really is a folder.

I never see colored icons at Groups.io on this computer.  They are only black, which makes it harder because the shape of the icon is the only difference.  I also have use of an older computer that still runs Windows XP and I think it shows colored icons, but not this one.  I guess you now see what I have been living with all along, in that department.

Andy


Beth Weld
 

Interesting change - I just checked it, and I have to confess that I really don't like the black icons for both folders and files.  I have to think (oh no!) and really look at the listing to figure out what I'm looking at.  Can we at least have different colored icons to be able to quickly tell a folder from a file please? 
Thanks
Beth


 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 04:28 AM, Beth Weld wrote:
I really don't like the black icons for both folders and files.
Agreed. In my usual hyperbolic fashion, I'd call the new icons virtually useless. However, I do prefer the new ordering scheme, as long as the icons can be fixed. (Otherwise, you need to separate files and folders physically to be able to quickly tell them apart.)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 6:36 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 04:28 AM, Beth Weld wrote:
I really don't like the black icons for both folders and files.
Agreed. In my usual hyperbolic fashion, I'd call the new icons virtually useless. However, I do prefer the new ordering scheme, as long as the icons can be fixed. (Otherwise, you need to separate files and folders physically to be able to quickly tell them apart.)
 
I haven't changed the icons, they've always been like that....


Mark 


 

Ok, so it’s the new positioning that’s at fault. (I could swear the old folder icons were blue! :-) In any case, it has now become prohibitively difficult (new characterization!) to distinguish folders from files in the list.


On May 14, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 6:36 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 04:28 AM, Beth Weld wrote:
I really don't like the black icons for both folders and files.
Agreed. In my usual hyperbolic fashion, I'd call the new icons virtually useless. However, I do prefer the new ordering scheme, as long as the icons can be fixed. (Otherwise, you need to separate files and folders physically to be able to quickly tell them apart.)
 
I haven't changed the icons, they've always been like that....


Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Maybe you could make the folder icons distinctly different now, even though they weren’t before? Could they be made blue now? Because I really find the new ordering scheme vastly superior. 


On May 14, 2021, at 7:39 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Ok, so it’s the new positioning that’s at fault. (I could swear the old folder icons were blue! :-) In any case, it has now become prohibitively difficult (new characterization!) to distinguish folders from files in the list.


On May 14, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 6:36 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 04:28 AM, Beth Weld wrote:
I really don't like the black icons for both folders and files.
Agreed. In my usual hyperbolic fashion, I'd call the new icons virtually useless. However, I do prefer the new ordering scheme, as long as the icons can be fixed. (Otherwise, you need to separate files and folders physically to be able to quickly tell them apart.)
 
I haven't changed the icons, they've always been like that....


Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 7:39 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Ok, so it’s the new positioning that’s at fault. (I could swear the old folder icons were blue! :-) In any case, it has now become prohibitively difficult (new characterization!) to distinguish folders from files in the list.

I mean, not to be difficult or anything, but I haven't changed any part of the display on the Files page. On the search results page I made it match the existing Files page, but that's it. I will work on the icons today, but that will be a new change.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

Haha Mark, don’t be difficult! 😊 I’m completely uncaffeinated but I think I’ve used up that excuse. 🥲


On May 14, 2021, at 7:48 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 7:39 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Ok, so it’s the new positioning that’s at fault. (I could swear the old folder icons were blue! :-) In any case, it has now become prohibitively difficult (new characterization!) to distinguish folders from files in the list.

I mean, not to be difficult or anything, but I haven't changed any part of the display on the Files page. On the search results page I made it match the existing Files page, but that's it. I will work on the icons today, but that will be a new change.

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

From my point of view, I find it confusing (amusing?) that the rest of you are talking about the "new" lack of colors in the icons.

That's because this, the black-and-white icons, is how they have ALWAYS looked to me (*).  I never (*) saw them in color.  They were crude, IMO, and always looked crude.

(*)  The exception being when I briefly used an XP computer, and suddenly they were in color.

I wonder what software Mark uses that wants to make them plain monochrome, which has now apparently spread to more platforms.

FYI, my platform is always a Windows-based PC.  I don't use a Mac, and don't use a Gizmo (what you probably call a "cellphone") for the web.  I use Google Chrome on all Windows platforms, so if Firefox or IE or Edge shows it differently, I wouldn't know it.  I get a feeling that the presence/absence of icon colors on groups.io is platform-dependent and maybe browser-dependent.  Why that would be, is an interesting question.  You'd think that good programmers would have figured this out by now.

Andy


Andy
 

Mark wrote, "I mean, not to be difficult or anything, but I haven't changed any part of the display on the Files page."

That's not quite true.

They used to display with Folders first, followed by Files, in the default view (with the up-arrow next to "Name").

Starting yesterday, they now display with Folders and Files intermixed.  Again, in the default view on the Files page.

So you changed something.  If not you, then someone did.

Andy


 

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 08:35 AM, Andy wrote:
If not you, then someone did.
The cat did it.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/an-introduction-to-asshole-cat-behaviors

 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi All,

The icons in the Files section have been updated. Also, the sort-by-Type issues should be fixed now. Please let me know if you see any issues.

Thanks,
Mark