Topics

moderated Feed view now the default


Duane
 

On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 05:01 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Thanks, Duane, I had a feeling the only fix for this was using a bookmark.
I've found that after doing mod/owner jobs, I'm having to retrain my mouse/finger to NOT click on the Groups.io logo (which now takes me to the Feed page.)  I need to use the Your Groups drop down and select Manage My Subscriptions (or my bookmark) to get back to the list of tasks.  If, at some point, the system could remember which page I prefer to use, it would be more friendly to me.

After cogitating on this a bit, I've decided that the Feed page isn't all bad, but is certainly different.  As an owner/moderator I'll never use it, but can see where it might be attractive to ordinary members.  Apparently pages like this are common on some platforms, though I've not seen any.  The biggest difficulty I can see is that with just a few (13) groups, I have to scroll down several screens on my computer to see everything.  I imagine it would be quite a few more if I were on a phone or tablet.  I guess I'm a minimalist at heart and don't have much use for all the bells and whistles. ;>)

Duane


Maria
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:41 AM, Duane wrote:
I've found that after doing mod/owner jobs, I'm having to retrain my mouse/finger to NOT click on the Groups.io logo (which now takes me to the Feed page.)  I need to use the Your Groups drop down and select Manage My Subscriptions (or my bookmark) to get back to the list of tasks.  If, at some point, the system could remember which page I prefer to use, it would be more friendly to me.
Duane, a question: If there were a "your groups" tab on the nav bar to the left would that feel more friendly and similar to the habit of clicking the logo? I have the same habit btw.
I appreciate the "groups" icon on mobile, and could see a use for a nav bar button that had the same function as the logo used to.

After cogitating on this a bit, I've decided that the Feed page isn't all bad, but is certainly different.  As an owner/moderator I'll never use it, but can see where it might be attractive to ordinary members. 
I'd be really curious to know if anyone who chimed in on this topic is "just" an ordinary member.
If it's all admins who are frustrated their work flow/work habits feel differently, I am sure there are solutions to making our work flow feel friendly.
I think the two issues need to be kept separate.
If our feedback is because we are admins who spend more time than ordinary members do - and use it to perform functions members never will - then we should probably separate that feedback out to help with constructive comments that could help us get what we need as admins without hurting what casual ordinary members may need to feel engaged in online communities.

Apparently pages like this are common on some platforms, though I've not seen any. 
Yes they are. When I open my browser to read my daily newspaper I am brought to the front page - not the story i was reading yesterday, and not yesterday's front page.
When I log in to reddit, i see the activity feed of all the reddits I am interested in - even with tabs to sort those by criteria such as: popular/news/home. Pretty sure that other commonly used sites that rely on user generated content and where activity is frequently updated by users, do the same (FB/insta/Snap/twitter/etc etc). Online magazines, etc. Content changes, you need a landing page to fill you in on that content since you aren't the editor, publisher, or moderator - most are just readers. It's like stepping in to a meeting that you didn't get minutes for, your first instinct is to feel you need/want to catch up on what you have missed. Get up to speed. The feed is one time efficient way to do that. Looking through topics view in each group is another.

I'm also curious how many who chimed in here are using mobile for groups.io?

Sometimes it takes time to get used  to new furniture, new work habits, new IOS versions.
I kept looking for the home button on my new iphone but it's not there anymore.
That round circle I was used to pressing for years. Gone.
Now I can't even remember why I liked it to begin with.
I am perfectly fine with the phone as it is - even though I cursed at it the first few days.

Maria


Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:26 AM, HR Tech wrote:
Duane, a question: If there were a "your groups" tab on the nav bar to the left would that feel more friendly and similar to the habit of clicking the logo?
Possibly, but I don't think it would "fit in" on a particular group menu.  It's already there on the feed/landing page.  I actually put my bookmark on the browser (Firefox) bookmark toolbar, on the extreme left, so it's close to the original location.

Duane


Maria
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 08:26 AM, HR Tech wrote:
Duane, a question: If there were a "your groups" tab on the nav bar to the left would that feel more friendly and similar to the habit of clicking the logo? I have the same habit btw.
I appreciate the "groups" icon on mobile, and could see a use for a nav bar button that had the same function as the logo used to.
Clarification: i mean in the nav bar in each group. It's already there when you are viewing the feed.


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:26 PM, HR Tech wrote:
I'd be really curious to know if anyone who chimed in on this topic is "just" an ordinary member.
A fair question, but I suspect that the answer would be no. Although there is no bar to joining as an "ordinary member" the (very?) low number of subscribers to beta points towards its being something of a minority interest. Even GMF membership is low in relation to the likely total of Groups.io Account holders.

However, did you see a point I made in a post earlier today in this thread? I suspect that the great majority of Account holders / groups Subscribers carry out their day - to - day transactions with their groups by email, not using the web UI (if a poll on one group produced typical results) so they will be completely unaware of the change the change we are discussing.

Chris


Maria
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 08:57 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
However, did you see a point I made in a post earlier today in this thread? I suspect that the great majority of Account holders / groups Subscribers carry out their day - to - day transactions with their groups by email, not using the web UI (if a poll on one group produced typical results) so they will be completely unaware of the change the change we are discussing.
Yes, saw that. We may have a different demographic in our groups. In our groups a majority are using mobile web and email combo.
The feed was implemented yesterday and we've yet to receive a single complaint. Only positive feedback actually.

I really think that this is an issue where we admins should approach this new feature from the perspective of what will make our work flow feel as good as it did before.
I'd like one more easy way to get back to the YOUR GROUPS page when i am done moderating in a given group. A simple YOUR GROUPS button in each group would resolve.  I don't think it's fair for admins to mix up their admin priorities when viewing the feed page, which is hopefully going to help web based members and members who simply haven't had time to read all the many summaries/digests/emails - or who simply want a quick glance, and to see what events are coming up, files uploaded, subgroups added etc.


Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 06:51 AM, Mark Irving wrote:

Making the feed view the default has broken the sort-column links in the (old default, now moved) Your Groups page. For example, if I click on the Latest Message column heading, to re-sort the list, instead I am jumped to the new default Feed page.

While I'm commenting, I also suggest the first click on Latest Message should sort newest-first, not oldest-first as it did until yesterday before inserting the Feed page affected it more drastically. It's almost always what I wanted, and there would then be no need for a second click to reverse the sort order.

 - Mark I.

Mark,

Good catch. And this is a real bug, not just a matter of going to a different place than one was used to. As far as I can tell, the Sort Column headers no longer function at all. If this isn't easy to repair, I'd rather have the links there removed altogether than left the way it is.
 
--
Gerald


 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 04:41 AM, Duane wrote:
As an owner/moderator I'll never use it
That seems to be the main problem voiced here. Allowing users to choose whether they land on the feed or groups page would allow mods to pick the one that works best for them.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 05:57 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
low number of subscribers to beta points towards its being something of a minority interest.
I see a few non-mod members posting from time to time on beta. With the exception of Maria (who speaks on behalf of her non-mod group members), those are the people here who've tended to like or be ok with the feed page.

I think that people who use mostly email, non-mod members, and people who belong to no more than a couple of groups won't be bothered by the feed page. They won't be bothered by the bouncing display order or the amount of content for each group they have to scroll through or the inconvenience of going to their home page to do admin functions. This may indeed be the vast majority of account holders. But most (not all) of the mod members I see posting about the feed here have voiced dislike.

So although Maria may be right that we, the mod members, should "take off our moderator hats" to evaluate the feed page, I personally think our preferences should not be sacrificed for the sake of non-mod members' convenience. Most of us (possible exception of Maria?) are not running for-profit businesses, and we spend more time on the site "working" for our members than our (non-mod) members. Moderator preferences should matter, too.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Jeremy H
 

I see three issues out of this change:

Firstly, that Feed View has (suddenly - was it there before, but something that we all seem to have ignored?) become the default view - and that it is the default view. My thought is that the default view should be something that each user should be able to select - be it Feed, Groups, Topics, Calendar, .... 

Second that there is a bug in its implementation - apart from Mark Irving's problem:
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:51 AM, Mark Irving wrote:

Making the feed view the default has broken the sort-column links in the (old default, now moved) Your Groups page. For example, if I click on the Latest Message column heading, to re-sort the list, instead I am jumped to the new default Feed page..

there is a problem in that the 'Your Groups' link on the Topics View (and others) goes to My Feed, not My Groups.

And thirdly, that 'My Feed' should be tailorable, as to what is included, and how - the current arrangement by group, ordered by last group activity is not I think how I want it.
J_Catlay's summary provides a good starting point for options
So the summary of my suggestions (and I'll stop here) are:

2. Importantly: Provide an account option to order the groups on the page either alphabetically or by recent activity. In looking back on Mark's original thread about the feed, I see the issue of the group order coming up there as well as now. I consider the current "bouncing around" (as Jim put it) of groups in the display unacceptable.
Also - ideally - a manual sort option, to keep my favourite groups at the top

3. Provide checkboxes for which activities users want to see in their feed (chats, files, messages, etc.)
4. Provide checkboxes for which groups users want to see in their feed.
but I would also want to be able to have a 'combined' view of Active topics, etc, for my favourite groups. And the ability to set the limit of what is shown - by number or time range (or both).

Jeremy


 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:02 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Moderator preferences should matter, too.
p.s. We may not be enterprise customers. But it's the groups we create and work hard to run that drive groups.io membership. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Drew
 

FWIW, maybe of use to admins...

I prefer using keyboard navigation over mouse whenever possible. I access Groups.io (and the groups list) by entering a "G" into the address bar of my browser. Autofill expands that to https://groups.io.

Now, after the change, in order to get to my groups list I have to hit the Down arrow after G to selecct groups.io/groups, a small additional effort.

At some point I think the browser will learn that "G" indicates the /groups URL so I won't have to hit the Down arrow and it will once again be the same as previously. Either way, it requires little effort.

Drew

On 03/26/19 08:40, Duane wrote:
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:26 AM, HR Tech wrote:


Duane, a question: If there were a "your groups" tab on the nav bar to the
left would that feel more friendly and similar to the habit of clicking
the logo?
Possibly, but I don't think it would "fit in" on a particular group menu.  It's already there on the feed/landing page.  I actually put my bookmark on the browser (Firefox) bookmark toolbar, on the extreme left, so it's close to the original location.
Duane


 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:04 AM, Jeremy H wrote:
I would also want to be able to have a 'combined' view of Active topics, etc, for my favourite groups. And the ability to set the limit of what is shown - by number or time range (or both).
All of those suggestions are great, but I'm requesting just the bare minimum (for now) to make this functional from my point of view: ability to specify which groups are in or out, ability to specify which content is in or out, and ability to specify which (canonical, not even custom) display order. And ideally, ability to specify which view I want for my home page (/groups or feed). I think these would all be simple and quick to implement. You could add all the desirable stuff later. I just want to be able to even use the page. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Another crucial addition: unless I'm missing something, the counter for mod action items is nowhere to be seen on the feed page. Why is this minimal info not there? I'm now seeing a whole bunch of detritus that I have zero interest in ("new chats") etc. but not the counter. This needs to be added in my strong opinion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

 "the counter for mod action items" - meaning, for each group (not the grand total at the top)


On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 8:45 AM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Another crucial addition: unless I'm missing something, the counter for mod action items is nowhere to be seen on the feed page. Why is this minimal info not there? I'm now seeing a whole bunch of detritus that I have zero interest in ("new chats") etc. but not the counter. This needs to be added in my strong opinion.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Ken Schweizer
 

Hi Mark,

 

After looking at this for a bit I see the change as an moderate issue for our members, although maybe not for owners and moderators who are reading this feed.

 

I would like to suggest that a message to the owners stating the change and date to be implemented before a major change is rolled out to all groups so that we can warn our members.

 

Thanks,

Ken

 

“You do what you can for as long as you can, and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing. You back up but you don’t give up.” ―Chuck Yeager

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 3:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Feed view now the default

 

Hi All,

 

After a bunch of tweaking of the feed view, I've now made it the view you get when you go to https://groups.io and are logged in. The previous view of your subscribed groups, is now at /groups.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thanks,

Mark


 

Hi All,

I've made the following change: we now remember which 'home page' you were last on, whether that's the Feed page, the Groups page, or the Topics page, and we return to that page the next time you go to https://groups.io (or click on the logo). Also, I've fixed the column sorting issue with the Groups page.

Thanks,
Mark


Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 01:14 PM, Ken Schweizer wrote:

I would like to suggest that a message to the owners stating the change and date to be implemented before a major change is rolled out to all groups so that we can warn our members.

 

Thanks,

Ken

Ken,

I would have thought so as well. In fact, when I knew it was coming out, I did let my group members know about it in advance. Turns out that was a bad idea. When it did show up along with the Group page redirected, they came after the messenger (me) with their arrows.
 
--
Gerald


 

Thanks, Mark. That's a big start.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 09:14 AM, Ken Schweizer wrote:
I would like to suggest that a message to the owners stating the change and date to be implemented before a major change is rolled out to all groups so that we can warn our members.
Agree, definitely need this in the future.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu