Topics

moderated email privacy

Ant No
 

Also I have seen complaint within group that full email addy is visible in group members list for potential harvest. This should be changed so that full EAs are always hidden unless given by the owners to specific individuals via pm. It's a major data protection breach. This should be a priority.

If it's a current setting it should be on by default and all owners made specifically aware of how to enable it if it's off. The owner being threatend by cancellation admitted he didn't know how to change it.

Duane
 

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 09:40 AM, Ant No wrote:
I have seen complaint within group that full email addy is visible in group members list for potential harvest
The group owner can change whether the Member list is available to everyone on the Settings page, Privacy, Members Visible. I believe this is set to Owner by default, so it was turned on somewhere along the line.

Duane

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 02:40 PM, Ant No wrote:
The owner being threatened by cancellation admitted he didn't know how to change it.
Well Duane's post has pointed him or her in the right direction. It might be worth pointing out that Member Directory does not show subscribers' email addresses; it is Members Visible that is the critical setting.

Obviously a lot of groups have been set up from scratch in the last few days and it is thus highly likely that some settings might not be, shall we say... optimised. It is just a personal opinion but I firmly believe that Owners and Moderators have a duty to themselves and their members to take the time to familiarise themselves with all the various settings and functions available to a group so that they can better respond to any queries that arise. That familiarisation is most definitely not a half - hour task.

Getting settings "right" for any group can be made easier by an owner / moderator having a second subscription to a group as an "ordinary" member. This provides the facility of being able to see things from a member's point of view; this can be very different from what an owner or moderator sees. The only minor downside is that the second membership cannot be within the same account because a person's account is "defined" by their email address, and a second membership therefore requires a different email address, and thus a second account.

"Getting things right" is also a good reason for having a moderator elevated to Owner status, or as close to it as an owner is willing to tolerate given that the second person has to be someone in whom the owner has complete and unshakeable trust. It provides the ability to put heads together over any query that arises and as the old saying has it two heads are better than one. (As I type this GMF has 2225 heads!) It also means that the owner can be absent for a time (e.g. on holiday) without a group losing any of its management functions.

Chris

Ant No
 

I agree Chris but remember that at the moment owners are trying to rescue a cat from a burning building and IT may not be their forte.

The data Holder, ie groups.io, has a data privacy obligation in law irrespective of how we feel.

Ant👣

Ellen Moody
 

Is it true that members of a list cannot see the whole email of other members? As list"owner" (moderator), I can see emails of everyone. I would personally prefer everyone to be able to see one another's emails -- this way if people want to become friends offlist they can. If there is some rule that has been promulgated and prevents this I can say nothing but I prefer openness.  Ellen

Ellen

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 2:43 PM Ant No <cmpaqp1100@...> wrote:
I agree Chris but remember that at the moment owners are trying to rescue a cat from a burning building and IT may not be their forte.

The data Holder, ie groups.io, has a data privacy obligation in law irrespective of how we feel.

Ant👣

Ant No
 

Hello Ellen

In an ideal world you are of course correct.

In this world data is harvested for profit which leads to spam and an undesirable level of covert surveillance.

For this reason Europe has enacted data protection laws that apply to any data held on European citizens regardless of where the servers are situated.

Names with emails are such data.

Members who wish to converse directly may choose to exchange emails through the existing channels with no special effort on anyone's part.

As you control whether that data is available it is also your legal responsibility to ensure each member has an informed choice on how their data is made available.

Regards

Ant

Ellen Moody
 

I presume the members were or are told (somewhere on the site). I did not set up my listserv. I can only repeat what I said.  Ellen


On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ant No <cmpaqp1100@...> wrote:
Hello Ellen

In an ideal world you are of course correct.

In this world data is harvested for profit which leads to spam and an undesirable level of covert surveillance.

For this reason Europe has enacted data protection laws that apply to any data held on European citizens regardless of where the servers are situated.

Names with emails are such data.

Members who wish to converse directly may choose to exchange emails through the existing channels with no special effort on anyone's part.

As you control whether that data is available it is also your legal responsibility to ensure each member has an informed choice on how their data is made available.

Regards

Ant

Duane
 

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 01:51 PM, Ellen Moody wrote:
Is it true that members of a list cannot see the whole email of other members?
Unless you make the Members List available to Subscribers, no one can see it.  They can put themselves in the group Directory, if you've enabled that, with information that they want other members to see.  If they don't add themselves, they also can't see any that are there.  Any email that is sent to people, either individual or digest, will have the email address of the person that posted it (that's the nature of email lists ;>)

BTW, GDPR does NOT apply to email lists because they couldn't function.  The site is in compliance though.

Duane

Ant No
 

You may be right Duane but where is that exemption stated?

In fact my old groups did function that way because the group acted as an anonymising intermediate.

Believe me when I say I have mixed feelings about data privacy interfering with good things like hobby groups.

GDPR is meant to protect individuals from the likes of Facebook, Verzion etc not from small special interest groups like these. However it does not make that distinction.

One should not assume it's all been done for you if you're a group owner. It sounds to me as though it actually has, but the owners share responsibility. Ideally both are aware.

Apart from actually protecting the data being desirable, I seriously doubt any group owner would ever face prosecution. No money in it and group members might get upset and cancel but are very unlikely to sue.

It's one of those legal technicalities that's unlikely to be enforced.

 

Ellen I am pretty sure I saw an option for masking or not masking, your choice. I’ve made offline friends because I could see their address In the email. I wouldn’t post my personal email to a message board. 
Susan B





Susan B 


On Oct 27, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Ellen Moody <ellen.moody@...> wrote:

Is it true that members of a list cannot see the whole email of other members? As list"owner" (moderator), I can see emails of everyone. I would personally prefer everyone to be able to see one another's emails -- this way if people want to become friends offlist they can. If there is some rule that has been promulgated and prevents this I can say nothing but I prefer openness.  Ellen

Ellen

On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 2:43 PM Ant No <cmpaqp1100@...> wrote:
I agree Chris but remember that at the moment owners are trying to rescue a cat from a burning building and IT may not be their forte.

The data Holder, ie groups.io, has a data privacy obligation in law irrespective of how we feel.

Ant👣

Ant No
 

Hello Duane

I passed your wisdom on to the upset member. Hopefully he will be reassured. I suggested he check if he can see everyone else's full email to determine the current setting.

If he can I'll talk the owner through how to change it by following your instructions.

I'm a bit tired now so I'm going to leave these intensive threads until I've had time to check in and say hello to my new groups.

I prefer the positive cheerleader role most of the time. These have been an effort.

I may be some time...

Ant👣

Judy F.
 

The owner/moderator has to set that in Settings then look through the various options.  It is there.
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

Ant No
 

Thank you Judy.

Turns out it is a problem so I'll guide the owner to fix it.