Topics

locked Editing messages


 

I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also, the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.

Thanks,
Mark


 


On 11 November 2014 18:41, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also, the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.

​Hi Mark,
I've just confirmed on a dummy group that only originators and moderators can edit messages.
It seemed to work very slickly.
regards,
Ian​



--


ro-esp
 

markf@corp.groups.io sendis:

I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also,
the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the
Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.
Err... WHO can edit WHICH messages? I don't see a problem with moderators editing messages *before* they're sent out, or members deleting their OWN messages, but letting even just moderators change the content of messages that were sent out already definitely sounds like a bad idea.

groetjes, Ronaldo


--
http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net


Linda
 

Hi Ronaldo, I think this is a wonderful feature of Groups.io. A careless moderator, for instance, might approve a message containing a broken link. Being able to fix the link would help members who read via the web. Linda

--------------------------------------------------
From: "ro-esp" <ro-esp@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:24 PM
To: <beta@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] Editing messages

markf@corp.groups.io sendis:

I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages. Also,
the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages in the
Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.
Err... WHO can edit WHICH messages? I don't see a problem with moderators editing messages *before* they're sent out, or members deleting their OWN messages, but letting even just moderators change the content of messages that were sent out already definitely sounds like a bad idea.

groetjes, Ronaldo


--
http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net




 

What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.


 


On 12 November 2014 08:50, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.

​Chris,

That could get complicated; multiple edits and associated version control would produce a list of dates, times and people.

IMHO the single word "Edited" together with an update of the post time is sufficient.

And "potential abuse" - by whom? If only originators and editors are allowed to edit, where is the risk?

Also, maybe Ronaldo's concern about email subscribers not seeing subsequent edits could be alleviated by a resend after edit?

regards,
Ian



--


 

I was only suggesting saving the last edit time and editor. I think it is important for transparency to know if it was edited by the OP or a mod.

On 12/11/2014 10:34 PM, "Ian Gillis" <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

On 12 November 2014 08:50, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.

​Chris,

That could get complicated; multiple edits and associated version control would produce a list of dates, times and people.

IMHO the single word "Edited" together with an update of the post time is sufficient.

And "potential abuse" - by whom? If only originators and editors are allowed to edit, where is the risk?

Also, maybe Ronaldo's concern about email subscribers not seeing subsequent edits could be alleviated by a resend after edit?

regards,
Ian



--


 

I just pushed a change to the site where edited messages now display an 'Edited' label at the top right corner. That was easy because it didn't require a database change. Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's important.

Edits are logged in the activity log (when and who did it).

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:36 AM, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:

I was only suggesting saving the last edit time and editor. I think it is important for transparency to know if it was edited by the OP or a mod.

On 12/11/2014 10:34 PM, "Ian Gillis" <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

On 12 November 2014 08:50, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.

​Chris,

That could get complicated; multiple edits and associated version control would produce a list of dates, times and people.

IMHO the single word "Edited" together with an update of the post time is sufficient.

And "potential abuse" - by whom? If only originators and editors are allowed to edit, where is the risk?

Also, maybe Ronaldo's concern about email subscribers not seeing subsequent edits could be alleviated by a resend after edit?

regards,
Ian



--



Linda
 

> Edits are logged in the activity log (when and who did it).
 
That works for me, Mark, thanks!
 
Linda

Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

I just pushed a change to the site where edited messages now display an 'Edited' label at the top right corner. That was easy because it didn't require a database change. Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's important.

Edits are logged in the activity log (when and who did it).

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:36 AM, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:

I was only suggesting saving the last edit time and editor. I think it is important for transparency to know if it was edited by the OP or a mod.

On 12/11/2014 10:34 PM, "Ian Gillis" <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

On 12 November 2014 08:50, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.

​Chris,

That could get complicated; multiple edits and associated version control would produce a list of dates, times and people.

IMHO the single word "Edited" together with an update of the post time is sufficient.

And "potential abuse" - by whom? If only originators and editors are allowed to edit, where is the risk?

Also, maybe Ronaldo's concern about email subscribers not seeing subsequent edits could be alleviated by a resend after edit?

regards,
Ian



--



 

Me too!

On 12 November 2014 21:31, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
> Edits are logged in the activity log (when and who did it).
 
That works for me, Mark, thanks!
 
Linda

Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

I just pushed a change to the site where edited messages now display an 'Edited' label at the top right corner. That was easy because it didn't require a database change. Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's important.

Edits are logged in the activity log (when and who did it).

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 4:36 AM, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:

I was only suggesting saving the last edit time and editor.. I think it is important for transparency to know if it was edited by the OP or a mod.

On 12/11/2014 10:34 PM, "Ian Gillis" <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

On 12 November 2014 08:50, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential abuse.

​Chris,

That could get complicated; multiple edits and associated version control would produce a list of dates, times and people.

IMHO the single word "Edited" together with an update of the post time is sufficient.

And "potential abuse" - by whom? If only originators and editors are allowed to edit, where is the risk?

Also, maybe Ronaldo's concern about email subscribers not seeing subsequent edits could be alleviated by a resend after edit?

regards,
Ian



--






 

Mark,

I've just pushed to the site the ability to edit archived messages.
Also, the Edit and Delete buttons now also appear when viewing messages
in the Inbox view. Let me know if you see any issues.
I strongly believe that each edit should cause the message to be re-sent by email. Otherwise the email-only members are in the dark.

In fact, as things stand even those who read by web are in the dark, unless they happen to stumble upon the edited message. So maybe the edited message needs to have its date/time stamp replaced by the date/time of the edit. Or maybe be able to sort the archive by either the original or the last edited date/time.

As things stand, one might question what benefit there is to being able to edit a message, if no one but the person who made the edit knows that it happened. Just "correcting the record" might be benign, but it can also be corrosive if done in the dark.


Let me put this bluntly: I don't want to be a member of any group where a moderator might decide to "correct" my words, and I'm left none the wiser.

The ability to edit a message while pending can be abused (and almost certainly has been), but at least I as a member receiving messages (or monitoring recent posts in the archive) have an opportunity to notice such behavior and take appropriate action (ask why, unsubscribe, file a TOS violation, etc.).


On the flip side, I'm fairly sure that some group owners (myself included in some cases) will feel strongly about the sanctity of their groups' message archive. They'll either want an option to turn off message editing or a wiki-like way to view the prior revision(s). Or both.

There's also a question of using edit to bypass message moderation. Perhaps committing the edit to the archive should require moderator approval under the same terms as new posting by that member. That could work slickly with a wiki-history.

At the very least, moderators might want a notification when messages are edited. Obviously needed if the edits are held pending, but arguably also needed if the message doesn't get re-sent.


Chris Leong wrote:

What if there was a note indicating that the message had been edited by
a particular user on a particular date? That might curb potential
abuse.
I think a re-send will also curb potential abuse: it fully exposes any attempt at being underhanded.

Such as posting a message that says "people who read by email are the smart ones" then immediately editing it to read "people who read by email are dinosaurs". Or vice-versa.

-- Shal


 

Mark,

Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
important.
Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal


 

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



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"On an edit, the message gets resent to the group" - if this is the case, then there should be a prominent message telling people that their edit will cause another message to be sent

On 18 November 2014 10:34, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group



Linda
 

Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...
Thanks,
Linda
 

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

Ok, it's clear that I need to add functionality around editing archived messages. Here's what's been asked for:

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group), must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made the change)
- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group

Am I missing anything? I'll need to ponder how best to do some of this.

Thanks,
Mark


On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
Mark,

> Displaying who edited it (or even just Poster vs Moderator) would
> require a slight db change. Not a big deal if you guys think it's
> important.

Yes I do.

So at least if a moderator comes along and changes my words at least there's evidence for other members to see that I may not have written that stupid (or TOS-violating) thing that is now in my message.

Is there planned to be a one-button "delete all my messages in this group" ability? With moderators able to edit my words I'm not sure I'll ever feel safe leaving any behind. But at least having them marked as to who edited the message will afford me some ability to credibly disavow the message.

-- Shal



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Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.



 

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


Linda
 

Thanks Mark - that's even better (being able to grant the privilege selectively).  Linda

Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Editing messages

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Linda Star-Freedman <donlin2@...> wrote:
Hi Mark,
Permission to Edit should be addressed in Group Settings.  I think only the original poster or a moderator should be permitted to edit messages...

That's how it works right now. There's an Edit Archives permission for moderators, and the original poster can also edit/delete their own message.

Thanks,
Mark 


 

Mark,

- On an edit, the message gets resent to the group
- Edits from members who are moderated (or are in a moderated group),
must be approved by the moderators
- Keep a list of revisions of each change (what changed and who made
the change)
Yes please.

- Ability to delete all of my messages from the group
I don't know if this one is just an overreaction or not. I don't like the idea of "taking my marbles and going home", but I don't relish the idea of getting into an edit tug-of-war with an unreasonable or vindictive moderator either. Unthinkable, while Groups.io is this close-knit community of reasonable people. But if you succeed in scaling it up then some of us are going to encounter all kinds.

Maybe there's a better way to handle the tug-of-war problem, I'm open to other ideas.

-- Shal