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locked Another observation - this time about trailing trash


 

As I noted previously, I've been reading and posting from the web site. To be honest it's refreshing to have it work and I can scroll through the posts as they come up and follow along while doing other things. However I've been noticing some things that have been a problem with groups for a long time. Most people simply don't bother to trim the trailing trash and there are people who simply quote every bit of a thread. (I don't mean to pick on anyone, but would offer #1324 as an example.) This has always been a problem for digest readers and by reading in Expanded Message View I'm getting that same overwhelming effect.

Is there a way to drop everything previous to the newest quoted text, unless the poster has edited the trailing string? There's really no reason for even including that if one views it in thread view. Providing some relief from this would make digest readers' experiences a lot more positive.

Dano


Judy F.
 

Dano, it was me that did that. If you read it, it's only Trish's original note to me. I do try to trim messages, by leaving the last one sent which is what I did.

There are some groups that want you to leave the entire thread, while others want the last message. An example is a computer help group that I belong to and he specifically states that the entire thread should be left. In most cases, members are asked to trim their messages, but not remove all of them. I know I don't want to constantly be going to the group to see what the last message was since I use my email program to view the messages.

Also, this is a little off from this, but I noticed when I went to the group that my message had extra line spacing in it that I didn't put there. My Outlook is set to HTML and maybe that's what caused it. I wish Mark could get this so it didn't do it.


Judy
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: D R Stinson [mailto:@steeplecab]
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 4:10 AM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Another observation - this time about trailing trash #posting

As I noted previously, I've been reading and posting from the web site. To be honest it's refreshing to have it work and I can scroll through the posts as they come up and follow along while doing other things. However I've been noticing some things that have been a problem with groups for a long time. Most people simply don't bother to trim the trailing trash and there are people who simply quote every bit of a thread. (I don't mean to pick on anyone, but would offer #1324 as an example.) This has always been a problem for digest readers and by reading in Expanded Message View I'm getting that same overwhelming effect.

Is there a way to drop everything previous to the newest quoted text, unless the poster has edited the trailing string? There's really no reason for even including that if one views it in thread view. Providing some relief from this would make digest readers' experiences a lot more positive.

Dano


 

I understand your viewpoint Judy, but there was a *lot* of information there, and using 'Expanded Message View', which is pretty much what Digest mode would give a person, it threw a lot of confusing information on the screen to wade through. Perhaps those groups you refer to don't use digest view.

My groups have a number of members on Digest who continually express frustration with this. I routinely urge members to minimize the amount of information they quote. Given that groups.io has thread view, limiting quoted material makes much more sense for many than wasting all the display space and bandwidth of quoting everything. Some of our historical threads go on for dozens of replies as details are worked out or people share remembrances. Quoting everything would make messages that were pages long.

I simply want some kind of an option to limit the amount of quoted material for those of us who try to avoid that confusion.

Dano


Duane
 

This is something that you should be able to enforce and somewhat control on your own groups. I, and others on one of my groups, have slow connections, so I insist on trimming all but the relevant portion. In "the good old days" of Yahoo Classic, I would first put someone on moderation when they did this, correct the first post or two, then just outright reject them until the poster figured out that I was serious. As someone mentioned, Groups.io shouldn't be limited to what the old Yahoo groups were, but I don't know if auto-trim would be worthwhile. It would have to be a group specific option for the exceptions like the computer help group that Judy mentioned.

Having said that, when I helped archive a group for someone in 2013, there was one post that was over 200KB in plain text, so message length and posting etiquette vary widely amongst groups.

Duane


 

This is something that you should be able to enforce and somewhat control on your own groups. I, and others on one of my groups, have slow connections, so I insist on trimming all but the relevant portion. In "the good old days" of Yahoo Classic, I would first put someone on moderation when they did this, correct the first post or two, then just outright reject them ...
As happens so often, we're seeing the diversity of the types of people that use the groups system. Mark, I wish you the wisdom of Solomon to sort out the different viewpoints.

Given the nature of some of our older members, such rejections would do more harm than good. We have guys who have trouble even staying active on the group, but their memories and reminisces are invaluable. (That's another reason some of us may need some pretty extensive moderator controls.) The problem is that we can't run everyone moderated because we don't have enough moderators to handle all the traffic. As it is, I do maintain some of the worst offenders on moderation so I can edit their posts. Unfortunately, this can slow down the flow of conversations and sometimes threads die because of it.

I'd just like a way to limit the amount of unchanged text. Maybe even a limited number of lines after the latest new text. I'm just trying to ponder this out.

Dano


 

Dano,

I'd just like a way to limit the amount of unchanged text. Maybe even a
limited number of lines after the latest new text. I'm just trying to
ponder this out.
I'd want an algorithm that removes 2nd level quotes and beyond.

Easy to say, probably a lot harder to do that it seems. The simple cases probably work ok, but in a system that has lots of users one probably runs headlong into a thicket of exceptions.

One advantage a system like Groups.io has is that it may be able to use more than the content of the message at hand: it potentially could follow the thread backward through the archive seeking correlated word sequences to remove. That is, the first-level quoted material would be present only in the direct predecessor to this message. Second and higher level quoted material would be present in multiple messages in the archive.

-- Shal