moderated allow member messages with none active #suggestion


 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 02:42 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I did not change the behavior of the welcome message and direct adds/invites.
Great. Thanks!
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

I think the solution might be to turn the whole thing on it's head
and implement what virtually everyone clamors for, and laments it's
absence, as soon as they arrive from yahoo: namely, 'scheduling'
files to go out upon certain actions.
I think scheduled files the wrong UI metaphore, for anyone not steeped in how Y!Groups did it. Files is not the natural place to look for a group setting like that.

That way, people like me, who want a single welcome message rather
than separate ones, could have it in a file and specify that it goes
out upon direct add and joining or being approved for membership.
That check-box flexibility is what I suggested, but within the existing Settings UI structure. Almost as simple as replacing the droplist notice type selector with a list of checkboxes, and it achieves your goal of maintaining a single document.

You could have more than one file go out to new members (or upon
whatever occasion). Having been allowed only one has been a real
nuisaance. For example, I've been forced to include the group
guidelines within the welcome message, which I'd rather not do.
Agreed.

I was assuming that with the change to using checkboxes that it would be possible to have more than one message "Active" for any given event. It would be difficult/confusing for it to be otherwise.

Shal


 

Shal,

In that case we're suggesting the same thing. I don't care very much how it's presented. 

My belated concern with my own suggestion (namely, using group files for the message) is that currently, files can't be marked individually as readable by mods only. I would not want all of the member notices to be accessible by members, but if group files were used, they would be. So using the notices feature would be better in that regard.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


AQ <aq2sw3@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 04:51 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
I would not want all of the member notices to be accessible by members

I certainly do want those notices to be accessible. I sometimes ask members to go back and
read the Welcome Message and Group Rules, which are member notices they once received
presumably but apparently have forgotten or maybe never read in the first place.


 

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 07:20 am, AQ wrote:
I certainly do want those notices to be accessible.
But I don't think you'd want "You have been banned from this group for the following reason: [bla bla]"-type messages to be a file that can be accessed and read by all group members.

I sometimes ask members to go back and read the Welcome Message and Group Rules,

Which is why I suggested, long ago, that a separate tab to be added for "group guidelines." So far, nobody has taken me up on it. ;) At this point, various groups handle this lack in various ways: making the guidelines a sticky message, making them into a file (which is hard to notice unless someone is specifically pointed to it), etc. I think this particular message should stand out on its own and have a dedicated space in every group.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane


 

People typically don't click on and read links when sent them unless they're interested in the context to t at the moment they get the link. It's why I think the guidelines should be easily accessible at all times. People often look for, request, or wonder about clarification of the guidelines just before they are about to send a message. If they were easily accessible *at all times* in a dedicated side panel I think they would be paid more attention to (and I would get less messages of the form 'I don't know if it's ok to mention vet names here but Dr Smith is great' bla bla and then I have to deal with the situation).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

typo, interested in the content (not 'context')

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 11:34 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

People typically don't click on and read links when sent them unless they're interested in the context to t at the moment they get the link. It's why I think the guidelines should be easily accessible at all times. People often look for, request, or wonder about clarification of the guidelines just before they are about to send a message. If they were easily accessible *at all times* in a dedicated side panel I think they would be paid more attention to (and I would get less messages of the form 'I don't know if it's ok to mention vet names here but Dr Smith is great' bla bla and then I have to deal with the situation).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 7:43 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Which is why I suggested, long ago, that a separate tab to be added for "group guidelines." So far, nobody has taken me up on it. ;) At this point, various groups handle this lack in various ways: making the guidelines a sticky message, making them into a file (which is hard to notice unless someone is specifically pointed to it), etc. I think this particular message should stand out on its own and have a dedicated space in every group.

I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion. I still think a code of conduct is a good idea, but due to the general resistance here, I've not done anything about it.


Mark 


 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:55 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion
I remember the COC discussion but nothing about a separate tab for group guidelines. The tab would be only for the specific group guidelines. I think I brought this up around the time you mentioned that the legalese now included reference to group guidelines that people were agreeing to adhere to for each group. I thought then and continue to think now that group guidelines should be easily accessible at all times, not just as a one-shot welcome message or monthly reminder - *especially* because of the new legalese. But I don't remember getting any response to that aspect. This would have nothing to do with a groups.io TOC. It would be just for the individual group guidelines and the tab could be optional or empty.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Sarah k Alawami
 

Hello, actually I asked about this  as well via groups.io twitter. What I would like to have happen is this.

1. First of the month hits
2. Message gets sent out to   the list listing the rules as a reminder.
3. Repeat this every first of the month.

I set up a calendar entry but I don't know if this will in fact do what I want, or what the poster wants.

I'm new here by the way so bare with me as I learn the interface.

Blessings and happy Tuesday


On Aug 15, 2017, at 5:00 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:55 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion
I remember the COC discussion but nothing about a separate tab for group guidelines. The tab would be only for the specific group guidelines. I think I brought this up around the time you mentioned that the legalese now included reference to group guidelines that people were agreeing to adhere to for each group. I thought then and continue to think now that group guidelines should be easily accessible at all times, not just as a one-shot welcome message or monthly reminder - *especially* because of the new legalese. But I don't remember getting any response to that aspect. This would have nothing to do with a groups.io TOC. It would be just for the individual group guidelines and the tab could be optional or empty.
 
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



 

Having a monthly message go out is possible via the calendar already. I'm still talking about having the message be PERSISTENT on the group's home page somewhere obvious. Some groups have worked around this lack by making the guidelines a sticky message. My group (1) sends the guidelines out once a month (not via the calendar because I don't like the way it works for messages and I don't like sending a file link), (2) makes them a sticky message, and (3) includes them in our welcome message. This is (a) too much maintenance of the same text and (b) still does not really make the guidelines easily available unless someone happens to look through the stickies.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sarah,

I set up a calendar entry but I don't know if this will in fact do
what I want, or what the poster wants.
That's exactly how I've set up a monthly reminder for one of my groups. It is an all-day repeating event that repeats every 1 months on the same day of the month.

I set it up with a reminder to go out 1 minute before the event, but that was before the "Send Notice To Group When Event Happens" checkbox existed. I think that serves the same purpose and is clearer.

I'm new here by the way so bare with me as I learn the interface.
You might want to join one or both of the user-to-user help groups:
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

Answering questions like this is our mission there.

Shal


 

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

This is (a) too much maintenance of the same text ...
So put the text in one place, such as (2), and link to it from (1) and (3). These messages are (or can be) in HyperText Markup Language after all, and links are what makes it "Hyper".

I know the objection is that people never click on links. But if you've given the link a proper introduction that's really on them.

and (b) still does not really make the guidelines easily available ...
That I agree with, cf. our other topic.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/5822219

Shal


Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

Thanks so much yall.

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



 

Hi,

One way to do it is setting up a recurring event on calendar. I “send” policy letters on the first Monday of every month. The description field for the event can include the body of the email members should read.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:52 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

 

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

 

Thanks so much yall.

 

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

 


 

Agree. Boo for sending out links. I don't care if, as Shal says, it's 'on them.' Nobody reads them and that creates headaches for me. And another boo for sending out monthly messages as 'events' with start and stop times. Lol. I don't consider any of this compatible with claims of superiority over yahoo. Being clearly superior in other areas does not cancel out these defects. They are linearly independent. :)

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2017, at 8:51 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

Thanks so much yall.

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sarah,

I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the
body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I
set up. I already joined the forum managers group by the way, so
we'll see how that goes.
No need to wait, here's an example:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/2118

There are some tell-tales that show that it came from a calendar event but I find the format quite acceptable for a group guidelines type of message.

YMMV of course, depending on how picky you are, but being able to write the Description in HTML gives you quite a bit of control over how the body of the message will look.

Shal


 

J,

Boo for sending out links.
I feel the same way, unless the group's message is really lengthy and would be better split into multiple major sections. I just offered that as a way to avoid maintaining duplicate copies of the text.

And another boo for sending out monthly messages as 'events' with
start and stop times. Lol.
That's why I made it an all-day event: no start and stop times. I agree those would seem a little odd. But the date and other headings are a style price I'm willing to pay for the automation of not having to send it myself. As is the need to maintain its content as a separate document. YMOV (Your Mileage Obviously Varies).

Shal