moderated Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug


 

Despite the fact that our group has PMs disabled and replies go only go the group, a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

This is similar, but sort of reverse, to a previous situation I discovered a couple of years ago, wherein members using aol or verizon on a PC running an old version of Windows who hit "reply" sent the message *only* as a PM and not to the group at all. I'm not sure whether that has been resolved, but here was the message I posted to my group about it, once I figured out the problem. This was a couple of years ago:
"MESSAGE REPLIES FROM AOL OR VERIZON EMAIL ON A PC RUNNING WINDOWS 10 WILL NOT POST TO THE GROUP UNLESS YOU TAKE CERTAIN SPECIFIC STEPS.
To post an email reply if you have either verizon or aol email (same thing), and if you are on a PC, you must use "Reply All" and then delete the cc to the individual member. Failure to use "Reply All" will result in your message going only to the individual, confusing everyone concerned. You will not even realize that your message is not posting to the group."

I will now need to post a message to the effect that members using hotmail on a mac device (it may happen on a PC as well, I have no idea - the member where the bug turned up is using an iPhone and iPad) should not hit "reply all" because that results in a PM as well as a message to the group

I told my group members a couple of years ago, regarding the aol/verizon/pc situation, that there was probably nothing groups.io could do about this and we had to deal with it by being careful, as advised (use "reply all" and delete the cc). Should I tell now tell my group members the same thing about this (newly discovered) problem - i.e., that there's nothing groups.io can do about it? I would hope something could be done (but suspect it's impossible). Unfortunately, first thing I did upon receiving the PM was (gently, I hope) chew out the member for trying to get around the disabled PM feature, thinking they intentioanlly changed the email address. And in any case, we disabled PMs in the group for a reason.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.
I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

How is your response remotely helpful? 


On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.
I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 08:08 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening.
It may be a problem for you but it's a fact that whatever an email client puts in the To/CC fields when starting a reply, the user can always change that and send messages to whomever they want.

Please note my hashtags.
I did, which is why I questioned it.

Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 
Endless speculative scenarios don't change the underlaying facts.

How is your response remotely helpful? 
It's my opinion and I'm perfectly entitled to question yours.

Regards
Andy


Dave Wade
 

J,

I can’t find a facility that actually disables PMs. The only option I can find is

 

Remove Other Reply Options

Removes links on the website and digest to reply options other than your selected Reply To option.

 

And that does what it says on the tin, i.e. “removes the links”. You cannot control the behaviour of individual mail clients. I have desktop outlook and if I hover over a sender in a groups.io list it gives me the option to reply to that sender.

You can try generating random senders, but you then increase the likely hood of a message being sent to spam, and prevent users from “white listing” the address.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 10 August 2022 02:43
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

Despite the fact that our group has PMs disabled and replies go only go the group, a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

This is similar, but sort of reverse, to a previous situation I discovered a couple of years ago, wherein members using aol or verizon on a PC running an old version of Windows who hit "reply" sent the message *only* as a PM and not to the group at all. I'm not sure whether that has been resolved, but here was the message I posted to my group about it, once I figured out the problem. This was a couple of years ago:
"MESSAGE REPLIES FROM AOL OR VERIZON EMAIL ON A PC RUNNING WINDOWS 10 WILL NOT POST TO THE GROUP UNLESS YOU TAKE CERTAIN SPECIFIC STEPS.
To post an email reply if you have either verizon or aol email (same thing), and if you are on a PC, you must use "Reply All" and then delete the cc to the individual member. Failure to use "Reply All" will result in your message going only to the individual, confusing everyone concerned. You will not even realize that your message is not posting to the group."

I will now need to post a message to the effect that members using hotmail on a mac device (it may happen on a PC as well, I have no idea - the member where the bug turned up is using an iPhone and iPad) should not hit "reply all" because that results in a PM as well as a message to the group

I told my group members a couple of years ago, regarding the aol/verizon/pc situation, that there was probably nothing groups.io could do about this and we had to deal with it by being careful, as advised (use "reply all" and delete the cc). Should I tell now tell my group members the same thing about this (newly discovered) problem - i.e., that there's nothing groups.io can do about it? I would hope something could be done (but suspect it's impossible). Unfortunately, first thing I did upon receiving the PM was (gently, I hope) chew out the member for trying to get around the disabled PM feature, thinking they intentioanlly changed the email address. And in any case, we disabled PMs in the group for a reason.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Wade
 

I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 



On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.


On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 



On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Wade
 

I don’t understand what you mean by “unclear on concept”. Private groups are, and can only be, private with respect to non-members.

Members who receive e-mails have always been able to reply to the sender, and I don’t believe groups.io has ever promised a way to disable it.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 10:39
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.

 



On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 




On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Groups.Io does not hide email addresses and in thst sense, group members can manually harvest an email address and manually send a PM. But in a group with private replies disabled, replies sent THROUGH groups.io should not be sent to anything or anyone except the group.

Please, all, see my OP here. I suspect that nothing can be done about this by groups.io. But the more email clients this is happening with, the more it’s a matter of “the feature doesn’t work” than a matter of, “well, we just have a quirky problem with this one (or two, or three) email clients, nothing we can do.” 

Groups.Io works in the space of emsil clients and needs to take (at least) the majority of their behaviors (and preferably, ALL of their behavior - witness the special “To” rewriting for certain clients) into account. That is what I mean by “unclear on the concept.”

I’m done trying to make this clear and will await Mark’s response, if any.


On Aug 11, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I don’t understand what you mean by “unclear on concept”. Private groups are, and can only be, private with respect to non-members.

Members who receive e-mails have always been able to reply to the sender, and I don’t believe groups.io has ever promised a way to disable it.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 10:39
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.

 



On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 




On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:06 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Please, all, see my OP here.
You might be interested to know that there is an equivalent anomaly when a group is set to Reply to Sender and Remove Other Reply Options has been checked; see this topic.   

Chris 


 

Thanks, Chris, will have a look at that later.


On Aug 11, 2022, at 3:18 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:06 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Please, all, see my OP here.
You might be interested to know that there is an equivalent anomaly when a group is set to Reply to Sender and Remove Other Reply Options has been checked; see this topic.   

Chris 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Wade
 

J,

As I said before, where does it suggest this should work? The tick box only says it removes the links added in the footer, not the options in the client.

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 11:06
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

Groups.Io does not hide email addresses and in thst sense, group members can manually harvest an email address and manually send a PM. But in a group with private replies disabled, replies sent THROUGH groups.io should not be sent to anything or anyone except the group.

 

Please, all, see my OP here. I suspect that nothing can be done about this by groups.io. But the more email clients this is happening with, the more it’s a matter of “the feature doesn’t work” than a matter of, “well, we just have a quirky problem with this one (or two, or three) email clients, nothing we can do.” 

 

Groups.Io works in the space of emsil clients and needs to take (at least) the majority of their behaviors (and preferably, ALL of their behavior - witness the special “To” rewriting for certain clients) into account. That is what I mean by “unclear on the concept.”

 

I’m done trying to make this clear and will await Mark’s response, if any.

 



On Aug 11, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I don’t understand what you mean by “unclear on concept”. Private groups are, and can only be, private with respect to non-members.

Members who receive e-mails have always been able to reply to the sender, and I don’t believe groups.io has ever promised a way to disable it.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 10:39
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.

 




On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 





On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

If course it can’t remove the options in the client. Lol. That is neither the issue nor the problem.


On Aug 11, 2022, at 3:31 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



J,

As I said before, where does it suggest this should work? The tick box only says it removes the links added in the footer, not the options in the client.

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 11:06
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

Groups.Io does not hide email addresses and in thst sense, group members can manually harvest an email address and manually send a PM. But in a group with private replies disabled, replies sent THROUGH groups.io should not be sent to anything or anyone except the group.

 

Please, all, see my OP here. I suspect that nothing can be done about this by groups.io. But the more email clients this is happening with, the more it’s a matter of “the feature doesn’t work” than a matter of, “well, we just have a quirky problem with this one (or two, or three) email clients, nothing we can do.” 

 

Groups.Io works in the space of emsil clients and needs to take (at least) the majority of their behaviors (and preferably, ALL of their behavior - witness the special “To” rewriting for certain clients) into account. That is what I mean by “unclear on the concept.”

 

I’m done trying to make this clear and will await Mark’s response, if any.

 



On Aug 11, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I don’t understand what you mean by “unclear on concept”. Private groups are, and can only be, private with respect to non-members.

Members who receive e-mails have always been able to reply to the sender, and I don’t believe groups.io has ever promised a way to disable it.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 10:39
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.

 




On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 





On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Wade
 

I can’t see the problem then. What are you asking to be done, if you agree we can’t control how the client behaves?

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 11:37
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

If course it can’t remove the options in the client. Lol. That is neither the issue nor the problem.



On Aug 11, 2022, at 3:31 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



J,

As I said before, where does it suggest this should work? The tick box only says it removes the links added in the footer, not the options in the client.

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 11:06
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

Groups.Io does not hide email addresses and in thst sense, group members can manually harvest an email address and manually send a PM. But in a group with private replies disabled, replies sent THROUGH groups.io should not be sent to anything or anyone except the group.

 

Please, all, see my OP here. I suspect that nothing can be done about this by groups.io. But the more email clients this is happening with, the more it’s a matter of “the feature doesn’t work” than a matter of, “well, we just have a quirky problem with this one (or two, or three) email clients, nothing we can do.” 

 

Groups.Io works in the space of emsil clients and needs to take (at least) the majority of their behaviors (and preferably, ALL of their behavior - witness the special “To” rewriting for certain clients) into account. That is what I mean by “unclear on the concept.”

 

I’m done trying to make this clear and will await Mark’s response, if any.

 




On Aug 11, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I don’t understand what you mean by “unclear on concept”. Private groups are, and can only be, private with respect to non-members.

Members who receive e-mails have always been able to reply to the sender, and I don’t believe groups.io has ever promised a way to disable it.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 10:39
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

No. It is distinctly NOT true for all iOS email clients. (And if it were, that would definitely be called a groups.io bug lol.) There is some “unclear on the concept” going on here.

 





On Aug 11, 2022, at 1:18 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



I suspect this is true all ios mail clients

 

D

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: 11 August 2022 08:08
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Hotmail allows PMs in a group with private replies disabled if user selects "reply all" #misc #bug

 

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and specific users having PMs get through despite PMs  being supposedly disabled in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ? What if (as I’m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they function that its features can be successfully implemented. 

 

How is your response remotely helpful? 

 






On Aug 10, 2022, at 11:36 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

a group member using hotmail through an iphone's mail program is able to PM members on a reply message if they select "reply all." Using "reply all" results in the message correctly going to the group, but also, and incorrectly, going to the individual group member's inbox.

I'm not sure how the behaviour of an email client and your group member constitutes a bug on Groups.io when Groups.io has no control over either of them.

Regards
Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Steve Hayes
 

On 11 Aug 2022 at 0:08, J_Catlady wrote:

It is a bug, or at least a problem, when a group has PMs disabled and PMs are
happening. Please note my hashtags. Exactly how many email clients and
specific users having PMs get through despite PMs being supposedly disabled
in a group would you be ok with and still claim not to be a bug or problem ?
What if (as I´m pretty sure is still the case) it also happens by using
Reoly All with AOL and Verizon? Still not a bug, just a problem with the
particular email clients and the group members? How about if you add three
more email clients to the behavior? Surely you woukd agree that at some point
or some level groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for
working in the space of email clients by knowing enough about how they
function that its features can be successfully implemented.
The only thing groups.io can do is to replace any "reply-to" fields in
incoming messages with the group address in an outgoing message setting
"reply-to" to the group address. The way recipients and their e-mail reader
software responds to that is out of the control of groups.io. If a recipient
wants t reply to the sender their reply does not go through the groups.io
server at all.

The only thing groups.io can do is that if a person is reading the messages
on the server with a browser, they cannot reply to individuals, only to the
group, because that happens entirely within the server.


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@..., but if you use gmail, hayesstw@...
Blog: https://methodius.blogspot.com/
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525


Steve Hayes
 

On 11 Aug 2022 at 3:06, J_Catlady wrote:

Groups.Io does not hide email addresses and in thst sense, group members can
manually harvest an email address and manually send a PM. But in a group with
private replies disabled, replies sent THROUGH groups.io should not be sent to
anything or anyone except the group.
But personal replies the the sender are not sent "through" the group -- they
by-pass the group completely. That's how email works.

--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: shayes@..., but if you use gmail, hayesstw@...
Blog: https://methodius.blogspot.com/
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
Fax: 086-548-2525


 

When I "Reply All" via gmail on any of my ios devices, it does not add a cc to the sender. This issue comes up only for very specific email clients.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 02:08 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
Surely you woukd agree that at some point or some level  groups.io, which operates email lists, is responsible for working in the space of email clients
I wouldn't.  There are so many email clients, as well as settings within those clients, that there's no way I can think of that Groups.io could account for all of them.  On some, Reply is equivalent to Reply All in another, but the user usually controls that setting.  Many people just use the default settings, but others tweak things to suit them.

The closest I can think of would be to totally omit the senders information in the headers for groups set to reply only to group, but then you may not know who sent it if they don't sign it.

Duane


 

If all of this is correct, then I would say the disable private reply option is so misleading as to be practically useless, and I will probably just turn it off in my group.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Presumably there's no problem with Reply All from gmail and most others because it knows the message is from a mailing list?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu