Multiple emails, one account? #suggestion


Malcolm Austen
 

On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 19:01:38 +0100, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 12:37 PM, ro-esp wrote:
I have my doubts about whether we should want it to be like this. Sometimes people WANT to separate subscriptions.
That's no problem, they just subscribe with the address they want for each group, though that requires separate accounts.

[New subject started, was "Moderator actions done by non-moderators? #misc"]

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

This would be a big ask but might it be possible ...
 - one account can already have multiple email aliases
 - it would be good(?) to allow an email alias to be made the primary address on a group-by-group basis

Thus a person could log in to one account but receive emails on different, group configured, addresses.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 09:48 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.
I'm surprised by this statement. I think on pretty much every system I login to, the account name is an email address.

It would seem to be a fundamental shift in the configuration of Groups.io to change the current set up and probably one that would result in even more confusion. In most email clients, it's generally easy to sort emails from different groups into different folders using the subject-tag.

Regards
Andy


Andy
 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 06:08 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 09:48 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.
I'm surprised by this statement. I think on pretty much every system I login to, the account name is an email address.

I can't speak about other systems -- but I often see that people do not readily associate the account with their email address.  Many groups users seem to be confused when they discover that they have more than one account here.  It's not uncommon.

It would seem to be a fundamental shift in the configuration of Groups.io to change the current set up and probably one that would result in even more confusion. In most email clients, it's generally easy to sort emails from different groups into different folders using the subject-tag.

I don't disagree about it being a major shift, or that it could cause confusion.  But it is not about sorting group messages into different folders (which I already do).  It's where they are sent.  I also need messages from some groups to be sent to different email addresses I use.  Call them Work, Family, and Hobby or whatever.  I don't want everything sent to my Work email account, nor to my Hobby account.

Also Yahoo let us have one account and send our group messages to different email addresses.  And you could easily swap them around without needing to unsub/resub.  The fact that Groups.io did not allow that confused me at first.  Just because I was used to it.

Andy I


 

I don't think it would be a major shift if done with aliases, both the status quo and and the capability to receive email to different addresses can be achieved by enhancing the existing email alias functionality to where not only those aliases can send email to GIO on behalf of the main account but can also receive group email on behalf of the main account.

A "Deliver (or Route) email to:" or similar dropdown could be added in the Advanced sub settings which would default to and preselect the main account address so no interruption to existing service, nobody needs to do anything when and if implemented, and being in the Advanced tab out of the way should help some with not causing confusion. (and of course adding documentation in the user manual).

Only the ones who want to take advantage of it would use it, meaning the user has already defined main account aliases so those would now also be listed in that dropdown below the main address and can be chosen, otherwise (no aliases) the only dropdown entry is the main account.

The outgoing message would still be formatted as it's now except the To: field would be the dropdown-chosen email address.

One then could have group emails going to different email destinations by adding the desired addresses as aliases and routing the emails to those per group as desired.  They can reply from there and their reply would be intercepted and header-treated as coming/posted from the main account, as it happens now on emails sent in from an alias address.

Existing users who are currently using multiple separate GIO accounts for subscribing to groups for the purpose of receiving emails to different addresses, could stay the same, or can switch to this way of doing it by un- and re-subscribing to the groups with the main account now, deleting those additional GIO accounts, and re-adding those addresses as aliases to the main account, then re-route the emails back to the corresponding alias in the sub settings for each group.  They can now have a single sign-on and screen just like the user who uses one account and email folder routing.

Cheers,
Christos


 

Andy,

Also Yahoo let us have one account and send our group messages to
different email addresses. And you could easily swap them around
without needing to unsub/resub. The fact that Groups.io did not allow
that confused me at first. Just because I was used to it.
As I recall, Groups.io deliberately chose not to follow Yahoo's model on this because it made the sign-up process so much more complicated, frustrating many members and moderators. A common refrain was "I don't want a *&)(*#$% Yahoo account, I just want access to this group."

To be fair, much of the problem was self-inflicted on Yahoo's part: the insistence that a Yahoo account carried with it a Yahoo Mail address, and the perception that a user must use the Yahoo Mail address in order to access Yahoo Groups. That particular problem would not occur with Groups.io.

Identifying an account by its (singular) email address has the simplifying effect of eliminating the need for users to create, and Groups.io to manage, a pool of system-unique account IDs (user names) for log-in purposes. For casual users, forgetting their account ID is much more likely than forgetting their email address.

This is not to say that I don't like the idea of being able to log in once and manage subscriptions by my various work, public, and family email addresses. Just a caution that such an implementation needs to be carefully crafted so as not to lose the simplicity enjoyed by casual members who only use one email address.

Shal


Dave Wade
 

Folks,

I always found subscribers were very confused by the Yahoo model. They frequently forgot the Yahoo address that was associated with the account.

Those in the know do sometimes get confused with the groups.io model and expect me to be able to change their e-mail address when usually its for a non-premium group so I can’t.

I don’t see that technology provides and answer to this. We just have to accept that humans sometimes need to be involved.

Dave

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: 18 June 2022 00:42
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Multiple emails, one account? #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 06:08 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 09:48 PM, Malcolm Austen wrote:

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

I'm surprised by this statement. I think on pretty much every system I login to, the account name is an email address.


I can't speak about other systems -- but I often see that people do not readily associate the account with their email address.  Many groups users seem to be confused when they discover that they have more than one account here.  It's not uncommon.

It would seem to be a fundamental shift in the configuration of Groups.io to change the current set up and probably one that would result in even more confusion. In most email clients, it's generally easy to sort emails from different groups into different folders using the subject-tag.


I don't disagree about it being a major shift, or that it could cause confusion.  But it is not about sorting group messages into different folders (which I already do).  It's where they are sent.  I also need messages from some groups to be sent to different email addresses I use.  Call them Work, Family, and Hobby or whatever.  I don't want everything sent to my Work email account, nor to my Hobby account.

Also Yahoo let us have one account and send our group messages to different email addresses.  And you could easily swap them around without needing to unsub/resub.  The fact that Groups.io did not allow that confused me at first.  Just because I was used to it.

Andy I


Bärbel Stephenson
 

I belong to quite a few groups, read them by email only (so much easier with my vision issues) and to make it more complicated download the emails to 2 different email programs.  So of course I have more than one email address depending which group it is.  This makes it complicated as I can't see all my groups in one place and one login when going to https://groups.io/groups.

However, I do have a main email address and the solution I have come up with is to be a member in the groups with my main email address and the second email address when appropriate.  In the groups that download to the second email address email program, I am on "no mail" or "special notices" only for my main email address. 

This means that I don't get more emails than I want, but I can see the groups I belong to in one list.

Barbara


On 2022-06-18 06:31, Shal Farley wrote:
Andy,

> Also Yahoo let us have one account and send our group messages to
> different email addresses.  And you could easily swap them around
> without needing to unsub/resub.  The fact that Groups.io did not allow
> that confused me at first.  Just because I was used to it.

As I recall, Groups.io deliberately chose not to follow Yahoo's model on this because it made the sign-up process so much more complicated, frustrating many members and moderators. A common refrain was "I don't want a *&)(*#$% Yahoo account, I just want access to this group."

To be fair, much of the problem was self-inflicted on Yahoo's part: the insistence that a Yahoo account carried with it a Yahoo Mail address, and the perception that a user must use the Yahoo Mail address in order to access Yahoo Groups. That particular problem would not occur with Groups.io.

Identifying an account by its (singular) email address has the simplifying effect of eliminating the need for users to create, and Groups.io to manage, a pool of system-unique account IDs (user names) for log-in purposes. For casual users, forgetting their account ID is much more likely than forgetting their email address.

This is not to say that I don't like the idea of being able to log in once and manage subscriptions by my various work, public, and family email addresses. Just a caution that such an implementation needs to be carefully crafted so as not to lose the simplicity enjoyed by casual members who only use one email address.

Shal







 

You can also set up an "alias" email address, which might solve part of this.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:48 PM Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

This would be a big ask but might it be possible ...
 - one account can already have multiple email aliases
 - it would be good(?) to allow an email alias to be made the primary address on a group-by-group basis

Right now, you can log into Groups.io using either your 'primary' email address or any aliases you have defined. I could set it up so that on a group's subscription page, you could change which email address messages are delivered to. Is there much demand for this? And would this increase any confusion around email delivery?

Thanks,
Mark 


Andy
 

In my opinion, making accounts deliver messages to other (alias) addresses would increase confusion.  I missed that feature of Y!G at first, but only because I thought it was the same, but it isn't.  I prefer the simplicity of knowing that your emails are sent only to the address you are subscribed with.

The current situation does make it somewhat more difficult to change addresses later (group by group), but I can live with that.

Andy


Ginger Iorizzo
 

I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!
JMHO
Ginger



On Jun 20, 2022, at 1:12 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:48 PM Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

This would be a big ask but might it be possible ...
 - one account can already have multiple email aliases
 - it would be good(?) to allow an email alias to be made the primary address on a group-by-group basis

Right now, you can log into Groups.io using either your 'primary' email address or any aliases you have defined. I could set it up so that on a group's subscription page, you could change which email address messages are delivered to. Is there much demand for this? And would this increase any confusion around email delivery?

Thanks,
Mark 


Dave Wade
 

Ginger,

Set up forwarding rules in outlook.com, or rules to filter into specific folders on the same.

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ginger Iorizzo
Sent: 20 June 2022 18:59
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Multiple emails, one account? #suggestion

 

I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!

JMHO

Ginger

 



On Jun 20, 2022, at 1:12 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:



On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:48 PM Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

 

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

 

This would be a big ask but might it be possible ...

 - one account can already have multiple email aliases

 - it would be good(?) to allow an email alias to be made the primary address on a group-by-group basis

 

Right now, you can log into Groups.io using either your 'primary' email address or any aliases you have defined. I could set it up so that on a group's subscription page, you could change which email address messages are delivered to. Is there much demand for this? And would this increase any confusion around email delivery?

 

Thanks,

Mark 


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 06:42 PM, Andy wrote:
In my opinion, making accounts deliver messages to other (alias) addresses would increase confusion.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one.

If it does happen, I'd like to know what email address will be displayed in the member list?  Effectively, it's a change of email address and I use the Activity Log entries stating members have changed their email address to help keep our external club membership database in line with Groups.io.  I trust that any such move towards this would ensure that whatever address is used for a main group would apply to its subgroups as well. Having different addresses for main and subgroups would make life more complicated in terms of supporting members than it needs to be.  Keep it simple please.

Regards
Andy


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 06:58 PM, Ginger Iorizzo wrote:
I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!
JMHO
Ginger
You can already do that. Just subscribe to the group you want messages to go to with the email address you want to receive them.

Regards
Andy


Andy
 

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Ginger Iorizzo wrote:
I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!

You do realize you have always been able to do that, don't you?

I have done that from the start.

Andy


Ginger Iorizzo
 

Thanks Dave, but I already have folders set up with forwarding rules.
Ginger


On Jun 20, 2022, at 2:38 PM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:



Ginger,

Set up forwarding rules in outlook.com, or rules to filter into specific folders on the same.

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ginger Iorizzo
Sent: 20 June 2022 18:59
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Multiple emails, one account? #suggestion

 

I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!

JMHO

Ginger

 



On Jun 20, 2022, at 1:12 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:



On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:48 PM Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

 

I think many people have difficulty with the concept that the account belongs to an email address rather than to their name.

 

This would be a big ask but might it be possible ...

 - one account can already have multiple email aliases

 - it would be good(?) to allow an email alias to be made the primary address on a group-by-group basis

 

Right now, you can log into Groups.io using either your 'primary' email address or any aliases you have defined. I could set it up so that on a group's subscription page, you could change which email address messages are delivered to. Is there much demand for this? And would this increase any confusion around email delivery?

 

Thanks,

Mark 


Ginger Iorizzo
 

Yes, Andy, but they are separate subscriptions. 


On Jun 20, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 01:58 PM, Ginger Iorizzo wrote:
I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!

You do realize you have always been able to do that, don't you?

I have done that from the start.

Andy


Ginger Iorizzo
 

But I don’t want multiple subscriptions. 
In Yahoo groups, I had one subscription but I could have messages from different groups sent to different emails. That’s what I would like to be able to do. 
Ginger


On Jun 20, 2022, at 2:48 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 06:58 PM, Ginger Iorizzo wrote:
I would love to be able to have messages from different groups go to different email addresses!
JMHO
Ginger
You can already do that. Just subscribe to the group you want messages to go to with the email address you want to receive them.

Regards
Andy


Duane
 

On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 02:47 PM, Ginger Iorizzo wrote:
In Yahoo groups, I had one subscription
No, you had one account.  Each group is a subscription.  The only difference here is that you have an account for each email address, so no configuration, filtering, etc., just subscribe with the proper email address.  I have about 30 subscriptions using 3 email addresses/accounts and no problems.

Duane


 


>>> And would this increase any confusion around email delivery?

It possibly could if it was added into the "Email Delivery" tab which is always visible, but I don't think it would cause member confusion if it was put into the Advanced tab.  Besides being out of the way, since the default would be the main account address it wouldn't cause any change in existing functionality hence nobody has to do anything to preserve their subscription settings, hence no user impact, few people would notice the addition I'd think anyway, and those would most likely may be the ones who want to take advantage of it.  I don't think too many people use aliases in any case, although that could change if this was implemented, I don't know, nor do I know what the demand for this would be.

It could be worded as "Email Forwarding", that's more-or-less what this is.


If a non-savvy user goes in there, more than likely they won't have any aliases defined anyway, so if they open the dropdown they will only see (and can pick) their main address, they cannot mess anything up:


If nothing else, interacting with it may prompt them to ask around or check the help manual to find out what this is and how it works, and they may end up using it.

For the savvy ones there wouldn't be any confusion, they will either already have aliases defined or they will go and add them when they find out about this feature and want to use it, so they get to choose:




It may cause some initial confusion among mods because it does require a bit of mod thinking-change in the sense that we have a membership email address and a delivery email address which -currently- are the same, but with this functionality the membership address doesn't change but the delivery address can be different.

It wouldn't be a change of address but forwarding delivery, the member would still be identified by the main account address in the group pages.  In the member list their main address would still show up like now since that's the group membership account address.  Maybe if a "FWD" badge was added next to those folks' email address, , whose mouse-over tooltip comes up as as the alias/forwardto address, it could help visually ID those folks.

To help make the user-selected alias address searchable in the log, a new event could be added, "Member setup email forwarding" or whatever, which would log the alias address the member selected.

That same FWD badge could also be added next to a group name in the "Your Groups" main screen to let the user know they have setup email forwarding in those groups, again showing the forwardto address as a tooltip.


One are where it could cause confusion if this was implemented, when a mod or another user wants to send a PM (through MemberList, Directory, MessageView), which address would be used for that in the message composition screen?  The primary or the alias one? (if one was selected by the user) 

I think it should go to the alias one (if user selected one) as the default since that's the address they want to receive group-related emails. 

On the other hand, seeing a different To: address there than the main/membership address, or alternatively having the To: field changed into a dropdown now to allow sending to either main or alias address (if an alias was selected by the user), could indeed cause confusion, so presentation of this bit would need to be thought out.

Cheers,
Christos