Provide option to disable ability of members to delete their posts #suggestion


Bob Bellizzi
 

Actually I think this is a Bug but since the ability doesn't currently exist, I can't call it that.
I've just noticed that one of our more "inventive" members has deleted 9 of his posts over the past 5 years.
This finding was the result of a review and discussion of one post containig an unverified statement that cause potehtiial professional harm to a medical speciaist.
I thought that we had a selection that limted post deletion to the Owners/moderators.
I think it's very important to have the option to prevent individual member from deleting their own posts because it changes reality.
We are now possibly unable to prove where that particular piece of (probable) misinformation came from.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


Duane
 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 12:19 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I thought that we had a selection that limted post deletion to the Owners/moderators.
That's never been the case.  Members have always been able to delete their own posts.  However, it's quite likely that someone on the group will have the original message in their email files/archives.  It also won't delete anything quoted in a reply, so deleting isn't all that effective.  There IS an option to prevent them from editing their messages.

Duane


Peter Cook
 

I can imagine that in some types of groups messages might serve as an audit trail, and therefore owners would want to prevent deletion and/or editing. 

Pete


 

That will never happen. It seems to be thought of as a legal requirement to allow them to do this. I disagree with that (although IANAL) because they grant groups.io indefinite rights to publish. But this was battled several times and it's not gonna happen.

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 10:19 AM Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
Actually I think this is a Bug but since the ability doesn't currently exist, I can't call it that.
I've just noticed that one of our more "inventive" members has deleted 9 of his posts over the past 5 years.
This finding was the result of a review and discussion of one post containig an unverified statement that cause potehtiial professional harm to a medical speciaist.
I thought that we had a selection that limted post deletion to the Owners/moderators.
I think it's very important to have the option to prevent individual member from deleting their own posts because it changes reality.
We are now possibly unable to prove where that particular piece of (probable) misinformation came from.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 06:19 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I think it's very important to have the option to prevent individual member from deleting their own posts because it changes reality.
There was a suggestion related to this back in 2018. I'm not aware that anything happened.

Regards
Andy


Bob Bellizzi
 

We checked the no editing when we moved here in 2016.
The issue for us is that a member made an unverifiied, serious statemen about a specialist/surgeon.
There are an adequate number of, let us say, repeaters, who might repeat this outside our group which could cause serious damage not only to his reputation but also to his livelyhood,
We could possibly be sued for defamation or some such.
It turns out that this bloke has deleted 9 posts since 2016.
He has occasionally been a problem.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


Bob Bellizzi
 

J,
I agree with you 100%.  Because we provide references to specialists, online discussion of not only expectations from surgery  but often day by day vision surgery recovery, we do not countenance doctor bashing.  We require off line communication for that type of issue so that we can investigate and delist doctors if needed.
I'm sure I have at least one monderator who keeps digests.  I hope.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


Bob Bellizzi
 

Maybe a suggestion to "follow" a member, immediately sending all of his emails to a specified address would do the trick but Moderation already does part of that.
Or add a flag to Moderate a member to make those messages non deletable by the member.

--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


 

Bob,

I don't understand your issue. You're asking for the option to disable allowing members to remove their posts. But it seems your actual issue is that YOU want to be able to remove their posts. So why not just remove the offensive posts? What's the problem? We have the same situation in our group, where vets are not allowed to be discussed onlist by name. If anybody does it, I remove the post, and/or moderate the topic and/or the problematic group member. Why not just do that? I'm confused. Disallowing members from deleting their own posts would seem to do nothing to solve your problem.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

I don't see how disabling the ability to delete a message, helps in this particular case (fear of a possible lawsuit).  Unless you are talking about being sued because someone else destroyed evidence, but I did not think that was your reason; or was it?

AFAIK, neither this nor Yahoo!Groups ever prevented message deletion by the sender.

Isn't there anyone in your group who receives your group's messages by email?  I have 15+ years of my groups' history in my email folders.

If your group is "public", then (some) messages might also be saved forever on the Internet Archive / Wayback Machine.

I have also wondered about giving Moderators the ability to lock other group features (Files, Photos).  But since there is a long history of not doing that, it might not be easy to argue for changing it.

Andy


 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 02:27 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I remove the post,
More likely I just edit it to redact the vet name.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 10:14 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
The issue for us is that a member made an unverifiied, serious statemen about a specialist/surgeon.
<snip> It turns out that this bloke has deleted 9 posts since 2016.
He has occasionally been a problem.
If it had been down to me he would have been moderated straight away so that further contentious posts could not arise. And if he has been a problem more than once I have to ask why do you allow him to remain a group member; as such you have left him in the position of being able to compromise your group.

Chris


 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 02:43 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
 you have left him in the position of being able to compromise your group
True but all of that seems irrelevant to disallowing this group member to remove his own posts. It seems what Bob really wants is to get rid of the posts anyway.
This is not adding up for me. I must be missing something? Surely the worry is not about emails floating around. You can't be sued for that - only for what remains on the site, if even that.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bob Bellizzi
 

J. 
Groups.io doesn't flag moderators/owners when someone deletes a post.
So he deleted it after I moderated him and before I could copy it.
While there are about 3200 copies in our members' hands an original in a screenshot of it on groups.io would be more desirable for possible defense

Re: your comment of why allow him to remain in the group.  Since there is no flag to us that someone  has deleted a post, the only reason I knew was because he just became an issue I I  invesgtigated.  There's no way I would be able to keep tabs on 3200 + members' actions.
--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


Judy F.
 

Hi Duane and others.  We have a rule on our buying and selling group, that members cannot delete or edit their approved ads (messages).  As moderators, we refer to those messages to confirm various things if the member is posting again, etc.. 

Hopefully this won't be considered since we are dealing with the Notify Members box already that is still being checked when asked not to.. 

Please remember what is good for one group, may not be good for another. 

Thank you,
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA


On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 01:27 PM, Duane wrote:
On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 12:19 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I thought that we had a selection that limted post deletion to the Owners/moderators.
That's never been the case.  Members have always been able to delete their own posts.  However, it's quite likely that someone on the group will have the original message in their email files/archives.  It also won't delete anything quoted in a reply, so deleting isn't all that effective.  There IS an option to prevent them from editing their messages.

Duane


 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 02:59 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
an original in a screenshot of it on groups.io would be more desirable for possible defense
I'm just not seeing that, nor am I seeing a need for a defense. It's gone from your site. Over and done.

Regarding keeping tabs on members' actions, why not request an optional notification for post deletions? I still completely fail to see how disallowing members from deleting heir own posts even comes close to solving your problem. And on top of that, surely there are not a large number of people in your group actually perpetrating this unique kind of offense anyway?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 03:00 PM, Judy F. wrote:
We have a rule on our buying and selling group, that members cannot delete or edit their approved ads (messages
You would have no way of enforcing the no-deletion other than removing the member of putting them on moderation if they do it. You can't prevent members from deleting their own posts in groups.io. You can prevent editing by setting your group settings to disallow it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy
 

I don't get it.

If the offense was posting a defamatory message, then why worry about deleting the message?  The damage was done when that member posted the message, years ago.

It seems to me that if the messages were the problem, perhaps the member should have been put on moderation or deleted for posting the message, not for deleting it years later.

Do you suggest you have a responsibility to defend that member if someone sues him?

Andy


Rubens
 

...
BB| The issue for us is that a member made
| an unverifiied, serious statemen about
| a specialist/surgeon.
| There are an adequate number of, let us
| say, repeaters, who might repeat this
| outside our group which could cause
| serious damage not only to his reputation
| but also to his livelyhood,


Welcome to the internet...
Nothing new about what you said.


[ ] Rubens




.


 

Bob,

>>> I'm sure I have at least one moderator who keeps digests.  I hope.

You can setup an archive gmail account and have it get everything (from now on) from the group, it'll be there for evidence if needed in the future.


>>> disallowing members from deleting heir own posts
 
I could be wrong on this (not all that knowledgeable on it) but another reason this won't happen is GDRP, right?  Wouldn't the ability of the [mod/group/GIO] to restrict the user's data deletion by the user themselves run afoul of it? 


>>> Groups.io doesn't flag moderators/owners when someone deletes a post.

Like J said, you're really asking for having mode message-deleted notification.  That message can be part of the evidence, the rest would be the original email from the backup account mentioned above.

Cheers,
Christos