For topics that are both locked and moderated, display both icons #suggestion


 

Currently, a topic that's both locked and moderated displays only the locked icon. But unless and until the change allowing mods to reply to locked topics is undone, I think topics that are both locked and moderated should show both icons.

I vaguely recall some conversations here about these icons, but don't remember exactly what they were about. However, I don't recall the conversations being about whether or not both icons should be displayed, and I now think that they should. I myself was not aware, until I tested this recently (as part of Bruce's issue with wayward mods replying to locked topics), that "locked and moderated" was functionally different from "locked." I now realize that it is. And a mod who replies to a locked topic may wonder why their post is not appearing immediately. Although Nina has just added this to the docs (thanks, Nina), unless the icon actually appears I think mods will wonder what happened.

Of course, Mark is now considering undoing allowing mods to reply to locked topics. But unless and until that happens, I think both icons should appear.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 05:39 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I don't recall the conversations being about whether or not both icons should be displayed, and I now think that they should.
You seemed to be arguing the other way in September #30319.  If a topic is locked and moderated then for the majority of members, the locked icon will be most significant. If a moderator posts a message to what appears to be just a locked topic and it is also moderated, then they should be able to see that in the pending queue and approve it.

Regards
Andy


 

>>> Currently, a topic that's both locked and moderated displays only the locked icon. But unless and until the change allowing mods to reply to locked topics is undone, I think topics that are both locked and moderated should show both icons. 

I agreed to that, it is a display consistency issue and a couple of other issues I already mentioned back then.  "Moderated" is just another property, just like "Locked", "Sticky", etc.  If "Locked" meant topic is really locked and nobody can post to it, then the way the display works now would be fine.  But admins are allowed to post to locked topics currently, so the "Moderated" icon should also be displayed if ON, even if it doesn't make that much sense to regular members, it does for admins, currently anyway.

>>> I vaguely recall some conversations here about these icons ...

Yes, serendipity, what was old is new again, whatever one wants to call it, that was my topic, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/icon_display_consistency/85758460, but nothing came out of it as more or less everyone was against it. But regardless of that, I'm glad you changed your mind and joined us in the Bark Side.

Cheers,
Christos


 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 11:55 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
You seemed to be arguing the other way in September #30319.
Thanks for finding that conversation. As I explained, I was unaware then that mod replies would be moderated.

If a moderator posts a message to what appears to be just a locked topic and it is also moderated, then they should be able to see that in the pending queue and approve it.
Not all moderators have message approval permissions, or even viewability of pending messages. Many of mine don't. So that's incorrect.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:10 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
what was old is new again,
At that time, I was unaware that mod replies to locked+moderated topics would be moderated. In fact, it's even possible, depending on the change history, that mods were unable to reply to locked topics back then. And at that time, before mods could reply to locked topics, the Mdoerated icon WAS redundant because the functionality didn't change whether a locked topic was moderated or not. At that time, the functionality of "Locked and Moderated" and "Locked" were identical and the moderated icon did nothing.

In any event, we agree now. That all said, it may soon be moot anyway because Mark may revert the change back. Until then, I think both icons should be displayed.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
As I explained, I was unaware then that mod replies would be moderated.
In fact, at that time it was possible that mods couldn't yet reply to locked topics. I don't remember exactly when Mark made the change. But in any event. it should be displayed now since it's not a given that a mod can approve a message or even know it's in pending.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 08:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
it's not a given that a mod can approve a message
I thought I'd be stating the obvious if I included 'if they have relevant permissions'

Andy


 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
if they have relevant permissions'
Exactly. And if they don't, they will wonder why their message didn't go through. Which is why the icon should be there for their information.
I'm done.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 08:52 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 12:40 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
if they have relevant permissions'
Exactly. And if they don't, they will wonder why their message didn't go through. Which is why the icon should be there for their information.
For an online user, there's a message at the top of the screen that states when a message needs to be approved by Moderators. Having an additional icon would seem to just give them advanced warning that they will get that message.  Email users don't receive a notification and they wouldn't see the icon either so I'm still having trouble seeing where the advantage is.

Regards
Andy


 

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 02:36 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
having trouble seeing where the advantage is
Same advantage as the icon provides generally. The same message at the top of the screen appears for a regular moderated topic. Email users don't see that icon, either. So you may as well argue that the icon is useless overall.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Here's another solution to this (aside from undoing allowing mods to post to locked topics): when mods post to locked topics, don't put their posts through moderation even if the topic is also moderated. Then the lack of the icon wouldn't matter. I actually don't know what the purpose is of moderating mod posts to locked topics that also happen to be moderated. I only figured out that's what was happening as a potential solution to Bruce's problem of the wayward mods.

So the way I see it, there are three solutions:

1. Do away with the ability of mods to post to locked topics.
2. Keep mod ability to post to locked topics, but if the topic is also moderated, display both icons.
3. Keep mod ability fo post to locked topics and don't moderate their posts even if the topic is also moderated.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu