moderated "First Message Also" in "Following Only" now not working #bug


 

Unfortunately, though, No Emsil members won’t receive the warnings. And there’s nothing they can do to fix their No Email setting anyway, since the only place they can set it is in their subscription page and it looks like it is set correctly there to Individusl Email. I’m assuming that toggling it back and forth would work because the changes would then kick in, but I haven’t tried this yet in my own settings because I want to preserve the bug to show Mark.


On Mar 6, 2021, at 5:31 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Yes to all by Duane and Andy. There are hacks we can make and warnings we can give out until the bug - member-list email delivery does not match member-page email delivery - is fixed.


On Mar 6, 2021, at 4:52 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 02:09 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
What does a mod do when they find a member who is No Email in the Member List but Individual Email in thei member page? And that’s sssuming they could even find all of them, which is not practical in large groups.
For your own groups I'd be inclined to send a message direct to all those on the membership list who have No Email set to get them to verify their settings. If you have alerted them to the possibility of an issue then it's up to them to check and be responsible for their own settings.

I still find it odd that there would be more than one location in the Groups.io database where the member delivery settings are held and that the subscription page would take information from one source and the membership list from another.  If that is the case, then it would also bring into question the validity of the data returned by the member info object in the API

Regards,
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Yes to all by Duane and Andy. There are hacks we can make and warnings we can give out until the bug - member-list email delivery does not match member-page email delivery - is fixed.


On Mar 6, 2021, at 4:52 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 02:09 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
What does a mod do when they find a member who is No Email in the Member List but Individual Email in thei member page? And that’s sssuming they could even find all of them, which is not practical in large groups.
For your own groups I'd be inclined to send a message direct to all those on the membership list who have No Email set to get them to verify their settings. If you have alerted them to the possibility of an issue then it's up to them to check and be responsible for their own settings.

I still find it odd that there would be more than one location in the Groups.io database where the member delivery settings are held and that the subscription page would take information from one source and the membership list from another.  If that is the case, then it would also bring into question the validity of the data returned by the member info object in the API

Regards,
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 02:09 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
What does a mod do when they find a member who is No Email in the Member List but Individual Email in thei member page? And that’s sssuming they could even find all of them, which is not practical in large groups.
For your own groups I'd be inclined to send a message direct to all those on the membership list who have No Email set to get them to verify their settings. If you have alerted them to the possibility of an issue then it's up to them to check and be responsible for their own settings.

I still find it odd that there would be more than one location in the Groups.io database where the member delivery settings are held and that the subscription page would take information from one source and the membership list from another.  If that is the case, then it would also bring into question the validity of the data returned by the member info object in the API

Regards,
Andy


Duane
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 08:09 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
it’s not realistic (or even possible) for mods to go through member lists and find the disconnecting variables and change them. What does a mod do when they find a member who is No Email in the Member List but Individual Email in thei member page?
If/when a member has a question about messages/delivery, I'll look into it and/or coach them.  Otherwise, I leave it up to the members to decide what settings they want.  With the fix in place, they won't be able to select conflicting settings, so there shouldn't be many questions/complaints.

Duane


 

Not to mention, as I said before, it’s not realistic (or even possible) for mods to go through member lists and find the disconnecting variables and change them. What does a mod do when they find a member who is No Email in the Member List but Individual Email in thei member page? And that’s sssuming they could even find all of them, which is not practical in large groups.


On Mar 5, 2021, at 5:59 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

It’s not me. It’s the whole system, including mods who don’t have a clue about the problem.


On Mar 5, 2021, at 5:31 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 05:54 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think the changes may need to be made retroactive.
In that case, all you have to do is wait for Mark to get his round tuit working.  https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If you don't want to wait, make the changes as Andy did.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

It’s not me. It’s the whole system, including mods who don’t have a clue about the problem.


On Mar 5, 2021, at 5:31 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 05:54 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think the changes may need to be made retroactive.
In that case, all you have to do is wait for Mark to get his round tuit working.  https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If you don't want to wait, make the changes as Andy did.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 05:54 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think the changes may need to be made retroactive.
In that case, all you have to do is wait for Mark to get his round tuit working.  https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If you don't want to wait, make the changes as Andy did.

Duane


 

The non-retroactivity is the problem. I posted the chronology already. I haven’t touched my settings since the changes. I think the changes may need to be made retroactive.


On Mar 5, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think, regardless of the changes and the non-retroactivity of them, that there's a real problem if someone double- and triple-checks their subscription page, finds Individual Messages, finds Following Only, and finds a topic in their Followed Topics list, and still gets no email because three months ago they set themselves to No Email but forgot.
It sounds like the non-retroactivity is where your problem is.  Have you changed it to something else and back since the changes were made?  I believe that's why it works for Andy, but not for you.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 04:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I think, regardless of the changes and the non-retroactivity of them, that there's a real problem if someone double- and triple-checks their subscription page, finds Individual Messages, finds Following Only, and finds a topic in their Followed Topics list, and still gets no email because three months ago they set themselves to No Email but forgot.
It sounds like the non-retroactivity is where your problem is.  Have you changed it to something else and back since the changes were made?  I believe that's why it works for Andy, but not for you.

Duane


 

Right, it doesn't match for anyone for whom the non-retroactive changes would have applied if they had been retractive. :)


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:57 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List.
So, if the underlying issue is that the subscription options page doesn't always agree with the delivery option shown on the membership list, I can see why that may cause a bit of confusion. I would have thought that both pages would take their info from the same source.

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List.
So, if the underlying issue is that the subscription options page doesn't always agree with the delivery option shown on the membership list, I can see why that may cause a bit of confusion. I would have thought that both pages would take their info from the same source.

Andy


 

Thanks. I just emailed Mark at support and then had to send a p.s. The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List. So that's why I'm getting nothing. I think, regardless of the changes and the non-retroactivity of them, that there's a real problem if someone double- and triple-checks their subscription page, finds Individual Messages, finds Following Only, and finds a topic in their Followed Topics list, and still gets no email because three months ago they set themselves to No Email but forgot. (It is not showing No Email in their subscription page.) Maybe the changes do need to be made retroactive somehow.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:47 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.
I have set up one of my test accounts with the same subscription options and it all works OK for me. What does your email delivery history say?

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.
I have set up one of my test accounts with the same subscription options and it all works OK for me. What does your email delivery history say?

Andy


 

Sorry to hammer on this but there really is a bug. I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.

I will send the bug report to support.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 07:53 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
being No Email and simultaneously FO could be considered a bug.
should read: being actually No Email but being shown as FO in the subscription page could be considered a bug
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I think the issue is right here:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28441
.."if Email Delivery is changed to `Special` or `No Email`, we now force Message Selection to `All` and uncheck Auto Follow Replies."

In my case, I set myself to No Email in December. The change above was made in February. I set myself to No Email and am still FO and R in the subscription page. I need to caffeinate but I'm now thinking this is mostly a problem of the non-retroactivity. That said, I still wonder whether anything further can be done about these cases, because there are bound to be a lot of them. I think even before the change, which was not really to fix a bug but to make things better and more intuitive, being No Email and simultaneously FO could be considered a bug.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Ok. Because I'm a moderator in the group in question, I was able to go in and look at my own activity history. It turns out that I set myself to No Email in December. However, my Subscription page still shows Individual Messages, Following Only, First-Messages-Also, Auto-follow Replies, which led me (and any other group member of any other group who is so affected) to wonder why I'm getting no email.

So this is the disconnect. When I go to my subscription page, it looks like I should be receiving some emails. But I'm receiving none. 

I still speculate/guess that the reason for the snafu may be the recent changes in Following Only vis-a-vis Individual vs No Email. I will downgrade my description from "bug" to "disconnect." But it is something that should be fixed.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

... and who are akso set toFirst Messages Also.

Besides that, the R setting should go away snd the system shoujd simply implement it for anyone set to F. But that’s minor compared to the real bug, or bugs.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 4:27 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I think it’s a problem right now. There are people set to Individual Messsges, Followimg Onlly, Autofollow Replies who are getting no messages, and who are shown in the Members List as No Email. 


On Mar 3, 2021, at 4:27 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane