moderated "First Message Also" in "Following Only" now not working #bug


 

This might be a bug resulting from the recent change wherein Following Only now implies Auto-Follow Replies. 

I am Following Only, First Message Also in a group (and had been for a long time) and I did not receive the first message of a new topic today. Since it's one that I wanted to follow (I had referred a member of my group to that group and was waiting to see her post), I happened to be checking the group and saw her message, from five+ minutes ago. But it is not in my email.

I wondered at the time the aforementioned change was made what would happen to people already set up one way or the other, and I had already seen some anomolies in the badges. So maybe this needs a second look?
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I replied to the message via the web, and now I know that AutoFollow Repies is not working, either. I've received no messages at all from the thread. I can send you details offlist if you want, Mark. I purposely have not touched anything (for example, I didn't go in and check "follow this topic" although I was tempted to), I was just waiting to see what would happen.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 01:20 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I replied to the message via the web, and now I know that AutoFollow Repies is not working
I was a bit concerned when I saw this report as the default subscription options on my group are now Following Only, First Message Also and Auto Follow Replies. In my testing subgroup, I've set my 'member' account to these options and sent a message from my 'owner' account.  It was received by my member account OK and the email footers had the correct link (an option to follow the topic). I replied to that from my member account (via the web), and my member account received a copy of that by email, and so did my owner account. The topic also showed up on the list of topics the member account was following at https://groups.io/topics?f=1.  I replied to the second message from my member account (via email this time), and copies were received by my member and owner accounts as expected.  So, in summary, I cannot recreate this and can see no problem.

Regards
Andy


 

Yes I was expecting a reply of this sort. When I said “is not working,” I meant “is not working properly” because it is not working for me, in that particular group. My speculation is that the bug may apply to people whose settings were in effect before the change. Or something else.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 1:06 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 01:20 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I replied to the message via the web, and now I know that AutoFollow Repies is not working
I was a bit concerned when I saw this report as the default subscription options on my group are now Following Only, First Message Also and Auto Follow Replies. In my testing subgroup, I've set my 'member' account to these options and sent a message from my 'owner' account.  It was received by my member account OK and the email footers had the correct link (an option to follow the topic). I replied to that from my member account (via the web), and my member account received a copy of that by email, and so did my owner account. The topic also showed up on the list of topics the member account was following at https://groups.io/topics?f=1.  I replied to the second message from my member account (via email this time), and copies were received by my member and owner accounts as expected.  So, in summary, I cannot recreate this and can see no problem.

Regards
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

The badge anamolies I was referring to before, in my initial post, were in cases of people whose settings were in effect before the change. For example, in my group there are now members marked F (with no R) and some marked F R. Post-change, everyone who is F should also automatically be R. That is what first got me wondering about whether the change was going to work retroactively.

Furthermore, I just noticed that although my email delivery in my subscription page in that group is marked as Individual Email, I am listed under No Email in the member list (I also happen to be a mod in that group so I just checked that).

My guess is that the convoluted mixing up of delivery method (specifically, keeping "no email" and "special notices only" as delivery methods, when they are not - they are message filters, i.e., message selection options) and including them in the algorithm for setting the message selection is the problem. I hope that this can be reworked to implement the original suggestion - which did get lots of positive response here - wherein delivery methods vs message selection are clearly separate, their settings don't depend on each other, and no-email and special-notice-only are not considered delivery methods.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 01:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
there are now members marked F (with no R) and some marked F R. Post-change, everyone who is F should also automatically be R.
A side issue is that there should be no more "R" setting at all if it's automatically included in F. I wondered about this originally, when in checking out the change I noticed that the auto follow replies button was still there and is juat automatically checked when someone checks F. Why have it at all? It only creates confusion. But beyond the confusion are the actual two (at least) bugs where (1) people marked F before the change don't now have an A added, and (2) there is some kind of screwup going on with the no email vs individual email settings.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 09:19 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
When I said “is not working,” I meant “is not working properly” because it is not working for me, in that particular group
So, not quite the dramatic situation the topic subject suggests then.   If there are some anomalies for some members in one group you are in, and, as suggested, this may be because certain settings were in place before the recent changes in this area (which seems to preclude members from having the same issue in future), would it be simpler to deal with these on an individual basis?  Perhaps sorting the membership list by delivery type and looking at the badges would help and you could even send them a message directly with details on what they need to do to update their settings?

Andy


 

Again with the “not so dramatic”? 😊

I don’t think this suggestion that moderators of all existing groups before the change understand and fix this complex non-retroactivity is even acceptable, let alone ideal.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 2:29 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 09:19 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
When I said “is not working,” I meant “is not working properly” because it is not working for me, in that particular group
So, not quite the dramatic situation the topic subject suggests then.   If there are some anomalies for some members in one group you are in, and, as suggested, this may be because certain settings were in place before the recent changes in this area (which seems to preclude members from having the same issue in future), would it be simpler to deal with these on an individual basis?  Perhaps sorting the membership list by delivery type and looking at the badges would help and you could even send them a message directly with details on what they need to do to update their settings?

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

... and that’s even if they *could* fix it, because it’s not possible. You’ve got a disconnect between the members list display abd members’ individual subscription pages, and worse.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 3:14 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Again with the “not so dramatic”? 😊

I don’t think this suggestion that moderators of all existing groups before the change understand and fix this complex non-retroactivity is even acceptable, let alone ideal.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 2:29 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 09:19 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
When I said “is not working,” I meant “is not working properly” because it is not working for me, in that particular group
So, not quite the dramatic situation the topic subject suggests then.   If there are some anomalies for some members in one group you are in, and, as suggested, this may be because certain settings were in place before the recent changes in this area (which seems to preclude members from having the same issue in future), would it be simpler to deal with these on an individual basis?  Perhaps sorting the membership list by delivery type and looking at the badges would help and you could even send them a message directly with details on what they need to do to update their settings?

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane


 

I think it’s a problem right now. There are people set to Individual Messsges, Followimg Onlly, Autofollow Replies who are getting no messages, and who are shown in the Members List as No Email. 


On Mar 3, 2021, at 4:27 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

... and who are akso set toFirst Messages Also.

Besides that, the R setting should go away snd the system shoujd simply implement it for anyone set to F. But that’s minor compared to the real bug, or bugs.


On Mar 3, 2021, at 4:27 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 04:50 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
So maybe this needs a second look?
Mark said that preexisting settings haven't been checked yet, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28503  If it doesn't work after you update/change, then there's a problem.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Ok. Because I'm a moderator in the group in question, I was able to go in and look at my own activity history. It turns out that I set myself to No Email in December. However, my Subscription page still shows Individual Messages, Following Only, First-Messages-Also, Auto-follow Replies, which led me (and any other group member of any other group who is so affected) to wonder why I'm getting no email.

So this is the disconnect. When I go to my subscription page, it looks like I should be receiving some emails. But I'm receiving none. 

I still speculate/guess that the reason for the snafu may be the recent changes in Following Only vis-a-vis Individual vs No Email. I will downgrade my description from "bug" to "disconnect." But it is something that should be fixed.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I think the issue is right here:
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28441
.."if Email Delivery is changed to `Special` or `No Email`, we now force Message Selection to `All` and uncheck Auto Follow Replies."

In my case, I set myself to No Email in December. The change above was made in February. I set myself to No Email and am still FO and R in the subscription page. I need to caffeinate but I'm now thinking this is mostly a problem of the non-retroactivity. That said, I still wonder whether anything further can be done about these cases, because there are bound to be a lot of them. I think even before the change, which was not really to fix a bug but to make things better and more intuitive, being No Email and simultaneously FO could be considered a bug.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 07:53 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
being No Email and simultaneously FO could be considered a bug.
should read: being actually No Email but being shown as FO in the subscription page could be considered a bug
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sorry to hammer on this but there really is a bug. I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.

I will send the bug report to support.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.
I have set up one of my test accounts with the same subscription options and it all works OK for me. What does your email delivery history say?

Andy


 

Thanks. I just emailed Mark at support and then had to send a p.s. The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List. So that's why I'm getting nothing. I think, regardless of the changes and the non-retroactivity of them, that there's a real problem if someone double- and triple-checks their subscription page, finds Individual Messages, finds Following Only, and finds a topic in their Followed Topics list, and still gets no email because three months ago they set themselves to No Email but forgot. (It is not showing No Email in their subscription page.) Maybe the changes do need to be made retroactive somehow.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:47 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:24 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I am now explicitly following the topic in the group in question and I still get no emails from it. I am set to Individual Emails, Following Only, First Message Also, AutoFollow Replies. I marked the topic as Followed. It is showing up in my list of Followed Topics. But no emails.
I have set up one of my test accounts with the same subscription options and it all works OK for me. What does your email delivery history say?

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List.
So, if the underlying issue is that the subscription options page doesn't always agree with the delivery option shown on the membership list, I can see why that may cause a bit of confusion. I would have thought that both pages would take their info from the same source.

Andy


 

Right, it doesn't match for anyone for whom the non-retroactive changes would have applied if they had been retractive. :)


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:57 PM Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:51 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The issue is actually exactly the same as before. I am showing as "Individual Messages" in my subscription page, checking it over and over again, I explicitly marked the topic as Followed, etc. etc etc. but I am *actualy* "No Email," which shows only in the Members List.
So, if the underlying issue is that the subscription options page doesn't always agree with the delivery option shown on the membership list, I can see why that may cause a bit of confusion. I would have thought that both pages would take their info from the same source.

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu