Topics

Member receiving msgs from non-subscribed groups #bug


Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 08:50 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
It seems we're being targeted by someone who is subscribing to Groups.io groups and then forwarding messages sent to those groups on to other people, many of whom have never even heard of Groups.io. I don't know why they are doing this.
Mark,

Is what "the miscreants" are doing a violation of the ToS "User Conduct" section as it currently written or does it require any amendments or additions to make it clear that what they are doing is not permitted?

Although I have no personal experience of this problem I understand from various comments on GMF that individuals removed from Groups.io show up as "Banned via Support".

Can I suggest that Banned by Support is clearer in its meaning, and that Banned for User Conduct violation would be clearer still. It is not impossible that "Support" is not fully understood by some as being "Groups.io Management".

Chris


Andy
 

It's probably unrelated -- but we received a sudden surge in "Unsubscribe me" messages from non-members, a day or two after Mark removed the other offending members.

Andy


KWKloeber
 

Mark 

Re: your email. 
TY for putting a priority on this and tracking down and handling the issue(s) and offending accounts.

-ken


Andy
 

Perhaps 'banned from Groups.io' is not the right phrase if it implies they will appear on the Banned Members list.

They do not appear in the Banned Members list, nor in the Past Members list.


These are user accounts that have no subscriptions and are prevented from doing anything in the system.

They were formerly group members.  The Activity log shows when they joined, any other activity, and then were Banned by system.

I'm confused about what you're saying.  Maybe it doesn't matter.  But it's curious that the Past Members list would not show all past members, and that the Banned Members list would not show all banned members.  To me, someone who is "prevented from doing anything in the system" means the same thing as "banned".

Andy


 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:12 PM Andy <AI.egrps+io@...> wrote:
Mark, I guess you tracked down many of those suspect subscribers that forward messages to other people (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28546).  I see a few dozen former group members who were "banned from Groups.io via support" a few hours ago.

It is a major focus of my time this week.

 
Oddly, they don't appear in the Past or Banned Members lists, but are in the Activity log.

Perhaps 'banned from Groups.io' is not the right phrase if it implies they will appear on the Banned Members list. These are user accounts that have no subscriptions and are prevented from doing anything in the system. Internally, they're called 'inactive' but I don't think that's descriptive enough for the activity log.


Mark 


Andy
 

Mark, I guess you tracked down many of those suspect subscribers that forward messages to other people (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/28546).  I see a few dozen former group members who were "banned from Groups.io via support" a few hours ago.

Oddly, they don't appear in the Past or Banned Members lists, but are in the Activity log.

Andy


Andy
 

"Are these members of the group or non-members?"

Like I said already, these were non-members, asking to be removed.  That was the point.

Andy


Donald Hellen
 

Andy . . .

On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:12:24 -0800, "Andy" <AI.egrps+io@gmail.com>
wrote:

As I say, in almost every case, the messages they send to us (to the +owner address) sound suspicious, as if not by someone actually wanting to be removed. I think they just randomly send these "Unsubscribe me" emails to "+owner" addresses. I don't know why but maybe they want us to reply to them, so they can get MY email address and add me to their spam list. It seems unlikely but I can't think of another reason.
Are these members of the group or non-members?

I haven't received anything like this but I'll be aware of it now. If
they're a member, after reading this, I would just remove them from
the group once I validate the message header.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Andy
 

Bob asked: "Andy, did you ever ask & get a copy of the offending messages?"

Once, I think only once, they forwarded the offending message.  I responded to them but never heard back.

As I say, in almost every case, the messages they send to us (to the +owner address) sound suspicious, as if not by someone actually wanting to be removed.  I think they just randomly send these "Unsubscribe me" emails to "+owner" addresses.  I don't know why but maybe they want us to reply to them, so they can get MY email address and add me to their spam list.  It seems unlikely but I can't think of another reason.

Andy


 

Hi All,

It seems we're being targeted by someone who is subscribing to Groups.io groups and then forwarding messages sent to those groups on to other people, many of whom have never even heard of Groups.io. I don't know why they are doing this.

The suspect email addresses joining Groups.io groups are mainly from Yahoo and AOL. They are generally of the form of two words and then 3 or 4 letters or numbers at the end. For hopefully obvious reasons, I won't really discuss in detail what I'm doing to catch these. I will say that it has my full attention.

Thanks,
Mark


Bob Bellizzi
 

We've been on groups.io for 5 years and never had anything like that.
We've always been a restricted group and membership is over 3000, per the new member accounting system<g>
Andy, did you ever ask & get a copy of the offending messages?
--

Bob Bellizzi
FuchsFriends@groups.io online  support  group for corneal dystrophy patients & caregivers
The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation 


Andy
 

re: "I had a few (maybe 5 or 6) non-members, people who had never heard of Groups.io, asking me as group owner to cease sending them messages ..."

We get a lot of these requests.  In nearly every case they are not subscribed, and never were, and they provide no evidence that they are.  We interpret their requests as trolling, but I don't know for what reason.  We do not reply (unless it sounds real).  Nobody has ever asked a second time.

I think most came from AOL or Yahoo addresses.

Andy



 

This is extremely concerning and somewhat scary! There is personal stuff being posted in some groups.


On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:17 AM sanjay <sanj95033@...> wrote:
We have had a couple of instances lately, as described by Mark Irving. People who have not heard of groups.I’m getting emails. I asked the latest one to contact support@groups.io  Weird. 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

We have had a couple of instances lately, as described by Mark Irving. People who have not heard of groups.I’m getting emails. I asked the latest one to contact support@groups.io  Weird. 


Mark Irving
 

I had a few (maybe 5 or 6) non-members, people who had never heard of Groups.io, asking me as group owner to cease sending them messages, but not recently. I think they were all Y! mail users, and the group member whose messages they were getting was also a Y! mail address. (It might have been another provider, not Y**oo!)

My workround at the time was to apologise, explain, set the innocent group member whose messages were being diverted to "daily summary" rather than individual messages, and send a message to that group member to say what I'd done and why. In each case the complaints then stopped -- and the daily summary meant that if the messages did go outside the group, only their subject lines were revealed, not their contents.

You may or may not find a similar response to be helpful.

 - Mark (no, not the famous one, just another Mark)


 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 8:38 AM KWKloeber via groups.io <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks Shal

My bad. I should have mentioned that the footer unsubscribe edress is not his, at least on the emails he copied to me - so I suspect none had his. 
Unfortunately I don’t have the originals otherwise I’d check the routing.  He’s a little like pulling teeth but hopefully it has ended otherwise I’ll press him for more and dig deeper. 


I have seen instances of emails sent to one address then being forwarded to other, unrelated addresses. I do not know why someone would do something like that. Please send me off-list the email address that's in the footer and I will disable it.

Thanks,
Mark


KWKloeber
 

Thanks Shal

My bad. I should have mentioned that the footer unsubscribe edress is not his, at least on the emails he copied to me - so I suspect none had his. 
Unfortunately I don’t have the originals otherwise I’d check the routing.  He’s a little like pulling teeth but hopefully it has ended otherwise I’ll press him for more and dig deeper. 

Sent from my phone


 

Ken,

A member reports that this week he’s received several emails from
groups to which he’s not subscribed
Have him look in the message footer, next to the Unsubscribe link. That shows the email address to which that message was sent.

If it shows his address, then most likely he is subscribed to the group in question, because this can't happen by any kind of forwarding or misdirection of the message.

If it shows an unknown address then a detailed look at the message's header fields (specifically the chain of Received and maybe X-Received fields) may reveal how the message ended up in his Inbox.
https://toolbox.googleapps.com/apps/messageheader/

Is there a systemic bug going on here?
Maybe. There were a bunch of reports in GMF of AOL users receiving misdirected groups.io messages, not recently though.

Shal


KWKloeber
 

I assume that forwarding is not what’s happening in your case.
No.  I mean, Yes.
I mean, forwarding is not what's happening to him.  :-)

Strange indeed.


 

That’s very weird. I know that sometimes, people forward me emails from other cats groups if they think I can offer insight into the cat’s illness. But I assume that forwarding is not what’s happening in your case.


On Feb 18, 2021, at 4:01 PM, KWKloeber via groups.io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:



A member reports that this week he’s received several emails from groups  to which he’s not subscribed - some containing attachments and URLs (undesirably concerned!)

He trashed most of them but did forward me a few and they are legit groups and the attachments were not nefarious, so it appears it might be just a glitch. 

Is there a systemic bug going on here?


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu