moderated possible bug in confirmation/application flow #bug #misc


 

I'm not sure what to call this, or whether it's a bug.

I've noticed that sometimes we get a pending member who is not marked NC (so they have confirmed), and whose last email delivery shows as "Confirmation Message." These are members who applied via the web, which means that the confirmation message was sent because it's the first group they're joining. (Members who already have a groups.io account and who apply to a group via email also receive the equivalent of a confirmation message, although people will say here that it's "not really" a confirmation message. But we're not in that case so the terminology doesn't matter.)

Anyway, the issue is that it seems they never received the pending subscription message. Because if their last email delivery was the confirmation  message, and they're not marked NC, then they must have confirmed. And my understanding (if correct?) is that they're not sent a group's pending message (or shouldn't be) until they've confirmed. So, if correct, the steps are (a) receive confirmation message, (2) confirm, (3) receive the group's pending message. These applicants have been through (1) and (2) (they've confirmed, since they're not NC) but are still not showing that they've received the pending member message, so they're missing (3).

In these cases I always resend the pending message, because it looks to me like they never got it. But I would like to know what's happening, and whether my understanding is correct. If so, this would seem to be a bug.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 05:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
And my understanding (if correct?) is that they're not sent a group's pending message (or shouldn't be) until they've confirmed.
No, the confirmation and pending message are sent at the same time.  I see it quite often in my groups where they reply to the pending before they're confirmed.  For those that do confirm, I resend the pending notice, for those that don't, I send both.  (I also see where both are bounced because they entered an incorrect email address, so just remove the member.)

Duane


 

Ok, thanks. 

In that case, I want to turn this into a suggestion that a group’s  pending message be sent only to confirmed groups.io accounts. That seems to make the most sense in terms of group privacy, as well as preventing us from having to go through the resend scenarios you mentioned, and which I’ve also been doing in the cases I’m referring to here.


On Feb 15, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 05:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
And my understanding (if correct?) is that they're not sent a group's pending message (or shouldn't be) until they've confirmed.
No, the confirmation and pending message are sent at the same time.  I see it quite often in my groups where they reply to the pending before they're confirmed.  For those that do confirm, I resend the pending notice, for those that don't, I send both.  (I also see where both are bounced because they entered an incorrect email address, so just remove the member.)

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I want to turn this into a suggestion that a group’s  pending message be sent only to confirmed groups.io accounts.
I would support that, although IME it won't completely "debug" the joining process for the simple reason that such bugs as there are are in the hands of the applicants!

I cannot begin to count the number of times we receive applications (with or without "confirmation" where despite sending reminders about returning the Pending Subscription request nothing ever turns up.

We have one pending at the moment; it is his second application (the first was in December) and he has still not responded despite a reminder. Unless he acts promptly this one will fall off the edge of the table as well in a few days time.

It may be that original P/S messages & reminders go into applicants' spam boxes, but there is nothing we can do about that.

Chris.


 

Those issues are different. But they admittedly exist. And I think clearing up the system process would help mods understand which it is: is this person unresponsive, or did the system even send the pending message? With the current process it’s impossible to tell. And so we resend the messsge in some cases where it’s totally unnecessary, possibly even at a slight expense of good will (“why are they resending this to me when I got the first one three minutes ago?”) or in the other side (“is this another clueless/impolite/unresponsive member?”). 


On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:55 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I want to turn this into a suggestion that a group’s  pending message be sent only to confirmed groups.io accounts.
I would support that, although IME it won't completely "debug" the joining process for the simple reason that such bugs as there are are in the hands of the applicants!

I cannot begin to count the number of times we receive applications (with or without "confirmation" where despite sending reminders about returning the Pending Subscription request nothing ever turns up.

We have one pending at the moment; it is his second application (the first was in December) and he has still not responded despite a reminder. Unless he acts promptly this one will fall off the edge of the table as well in a few days time.

It may be that original P/S messages & reminders go into applicants' spam boxes, but there is nothing we can do about that.

Chris.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Also I think making this change would create consistency with the email-application flow. I think in that case the member has to confirm (or if you prefer, call it “confirm their interest,” even though the notices are identical) before they are sent the pending notice. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:44 AM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Those issues are different. But they admittedly exist. And I think clearing up the system process would help mods understand which it is: is this person unresponsive, or did the system even send the pending message? With the current process it’s impossible to tell. And so we resend the messsge in some cases where it’s totally unnecessary, possibly even at a slight expense of good will (“why are they resending this to me when I got the first one three minutes ago?”) or in the other side (“is this another clueless/impolite/unresponsive member?”). 


On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:55 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:59 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I want to turn this into a suggestion that a group’s  pending message be sent only to confirmed groups.io accounts.
I would support that, although IME it won't completely "debug" the joining process for the simple reason that such bugs as there are are in the hands of the applicants!

I cannot begin to count the number of times we receive applications (with or without "confirmation" where despite sending reminders about returning the Pending Subscription request nothing ever turns up.

We have one pending at the moment; it is his second application (the first was in December) and he has still not responded despite a reminder. Unless he acts promptly this one will fall off the edge of the table as well in a few days time.

It may be that original P/S messages & reminders go into applicants' spam boxes, but there is nothing we can do about that.

Chris.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 06:46 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
In these cases I always resend the pending message, because it looks to me like they never got it.

Now that you mentioned this, I have noticed that I seem to have to resend the pending question more often in the past months than I used to do when I first started.

Cheers,
Christos


 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 09:54 AM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
I have noticed that I seem to have to resend the pending question more often in the past months than I used to
I am talking about a very specific case, where the pending member shows up as "NC" and the email delivery history is showing the last email received is the confirmation email. This makes it very hard to tell whether (since apparently, according to Duane, both the confirmation and pending notices are sent at the same time, which to me means "ordered at the same time but we can't really know which went out first") - makes it very hard to tell whether or not the pending notice actually went out and was received at all. If this is changed so that the pending notice goes out specifically only after the member has confirmed, mods would have much more information about this.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu