Topics

moderated Include info blurb & link to the upon account creation #suggestion


 

That looks good, unobtrusive, simple, and precise, thanks!

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-01-25 10:27, Mark Fletcher via groups.io wrote:
I've added links to the help center to the following areas:


 

I like this. It's not a separate welcome message, which I think would have been confusing.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi All,

I've added links to the help center to the following areas:

- The email sent when someone confirms their account via email (aka the confirming confirmation email).
- The welcome page when someone confirms their account via the web.
- The default group welcome message. (this message is created when the group is created, so this addition is not retroactive to existing groups).

The added line is of the form: "Visit our <a href="https://groups.io/helpcenter">help center</a> for more information about how the Groups.io site works."

Thanks,
Mark


 

I know all about the sinking yahoo groups and the groups.io lifeboats. It was practically the only subject of conversation here for months. I just meant that you did have other choices.


On Jan 25, 2021, at 6:11 AM, txercoupemuseum.org <ercoguru@...> wrote:

Sorry, perhaps poor choice of words.  Nothing sinister intended,

The groups I now own were moved to Yahoo in early 2002 from a private server.  Yahoo served our purposes just fine until they decided to terminate services essential to our normal operations.  This impending self-destruction thereby forced many groups utilizing Yahoo hosting to find another “home” that, given the option, would have much preferred to continue as before.

At the time, generally available information strongly suggested Groups.io the best available option.  During the week it took me to decide to bring over my groups, that process was no longer free.  

Not only did no one hold a gun to my head to move my groups here, but  I personally “fronted” the funds necessary for a migration I considered essential to said groups survival.  So long as we’re “grandfathered” as a privileged free group, we’re good (perhaps not forever  ;<)

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 10:25 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

<snip>

What “forced migration”?


On Jan 24, 2021, at 7:58 PM, txercoupemuseum.org <ercoguru@...> wrote:

Hi Christos,

<snip>

Lengthy discussions as to what is or is not possible on Groups.io since our forced migration has been extremely limited and carried on “off list”.  On our forums this would be considered by this owner as “off topic” and I don’t believe such subscriber involvement should be encouraged.

<snip>

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

J brought up a good point in the sub settings topic:

> No group members I know of read the manual or even know that it exists.
 
This may have fallen through the cracks ever since the Help Center was created, but why not include some info blurb and the links to the manuals (help center landing page) in the account confirmation message?  Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?  And possibly also post it on the landing page (with the profile edit blurb and links) where the new user is landed when they click the new-account confirmation link, or the first time they manually log-in? 

Doing both ensures all types of new GIO account users are served, done manually by the user or through DirectAdded / Invite.

It should help with the visibility issue.  (said message could also possibly include any other basic-basic-info-to-the-average-user we may want to also include)

For the existing user base, I guess a one-time mass emailing is out of the question, but it could be setup as the same "show it just once" onscreen note with link when users log-in or first time they visit (since the note gets instituted); or alternatively set it up as a persisting-but-timed note with the "x" option to dismiss it, in which case it won't show again.

Cheers,
Christos

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


txercoupemuseum.org
 

Sorry, perhaps poor choice of words.  Nothing sinister intended,

The groups I now own were moved to Yahoo in early 2002 from a private server.  Yahoo served our purposes just fine until they decided to terminate services essential to our normal operations.  This impending self-destruction thereby forced many groups utilizing Yahoo hosting to find another “home” that, given the option, would have much preferred to continue as before.

At the time, generally available information strongly suggested Groups.io the best available option.  During the week it took me to decide to bring over my groups, that process was no longer free.  

Not only did no one hold a gun to my head to move my groups here, but  I personally “fronted” the funds necessary for a migration I considered essential to said groups survival.  So long as we’re “grandfathered” as a privileged free group, we’re good (perhaps not forever  ;<)

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 10:25 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

<snip>

What “forced migration”?


On Jan 24, 2021, at 7:58 PM, txercoupemuseum.org <ercoguru@...> wrote:

Hi Christos,

<snip>

Lengthy discussions as to what is or is not possible on Groups.io since our forced migration has been extremely limited and carried on “off list”.  On our forums this would be considered by this owner as “off topic” and I don’t believe such subscriber involvement should be encouraged.

<snip>

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

J brought up a good point in the sub settings topic:

> No group members I know of read the manual or even know that it exists.
 
This may have fallen through the cracks ever since the Help Center was created, but why not include some info blurb and the links to the manuals (help center landing page) in the account confirmation message?  Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?  And possibly also post it on the landing page (with the profile edit blurb and links) where the new user is landed when they click the new-account confirmation link, or the first time they manually log-in? 

Doing both ensures all types of new GIO account users are served, done manually by the user or through DirectAdded / Invite.

It should help with the visibility issue.  (said message could also possibly include any other basic-basic-info-to-the-average-user we may want to also include)

For the existing user base, I guess a one-time mass emailing is out of the question, but it could be setup as the same "show it just once" onscreen note with link when users log-in or first time they visit (since the note gets instituted); or alternatively set it up as a persisting-but-timed note with the "x" option to dismiss it, in which case it won't show again.

Cheers,
Christos

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu



 

Bill,

No offense, but I have no idea what you are talking about, your reply makes no sense to me in relation to my OP message which you quoted, and it  does seem a bit over-exaggerated.  The only part that made some sense to me is this:

"But I would strenuously object if notification to “...all types of new GIO account users…” were automatically incorporated as it would raise issues in my groups I would much prefer remain “sleeping dogs”"

But even that, I suspect you may have misunderstood what I actually meant by notification, because I still cannot get how that would cause your groups to wake up.

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-01-24 22:44, txercoupemuseum.org via groups.io wrote:
Hi Christos,

I cannot think of a more sure way to make owners and moderators of “simple” groups that focus on limited subjects tear their hair out than to do this.  If an owner or moderator wants to make a full time job (unpaid) of managing their group(s), this would immediately and irreversibly do that!

My people (and I) could care less about most of the almost infinite complications interminably discussed on GMF, and I have no intention whatsoever of letting that genie out of the bottle.  To my knowledge, nothing would keep them from joining [beta].

We are an aircraft technical group, not a “group management” group.  Anyone who wants to can join or quit and contribute or not as they see fit.  Over twenty years, only one person has been thrown out.

Lengthy discussions as to what is or is not possible on Groups.io since our forced migration has been extremely limited and carried on “off list”.  On our forums this would be considered by this owner as “off topic” and I don’t believe such subscriber involvement should be encouraged.

That said, every group has its own reasons to exist.  I fully understand that one size DOES NOT “fit all”.  But I would strenuously object if notification to “...all types of new GIO account users…” were automatically incorporated as it would raise issues in my groups I would much prefer remain “sleeping dogs”.

Best!

WRB


 

While I’m not crazy about the proposal, I really don’t see it causing all these problems.

What “forced migration”?


On Jan 24, 2021, at 7:58 PM, txercoupemuseum.org <ercoguru@...> wrote:

Hi Christos,

I cannot think of a more sure way to make owners and moderators of “simple” groups that focus on limited subjects tear their hair out than to do this.  If an owner or moderator wants to make a full time job (unpaid) of managing their group(s), this would immediately and irreversibly do that!

My people (and I) could care less about most of the almost infinite complications interminably discussed on GMF, and I have no intention whatsoever of letting that genie out of the bottle.  To my knowledge, nothing would keep them from joining [beta].

We are an aircraft technical group, not a “group management” group.  Anyone who wants to can join or quit and contribute or not as they see fit.  Over twenty years, only one person has been thrown out.

Lengthy discussions as to what is or is not possible on Groups.io since our forced migration has been extremely limited and carried on “off list”.  On our forums this would be considered by this owner as “off topic” and I don’t believe such subscriber involvement should be encouraged.

That said, every group has its own reasons to exist.  I fully understand that one size DOES NOT “fit all”.  But I would strenuously object if notification to “...all types of new GIO account users…” were automatically incorporated as it would raise issues in my groups I would much prefer remain “sleeping dogs”.

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

J brought up a good point in the sub settings topic:

> No group members I know of read the manual or even know that it exists.
 
This may have fallen through the cracks ever since the Help Center was created, but why not include some info blurb and the links to the manuals (help center landing page) in the account confirmation message?  Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?  And possibly also post it on the landing page (with the profile edit blurb and links) where the new user is landed when they click the new-account confirmation link, or the first time they manually log-in? 

Doing both ensures all types of new GIO account users are served, done manually by the user or through DirectAdded / Invite.

It should help with the visibility issue.  (said message could also possibly include any other basic-basic-info-to-the-average-user we may want to also include)

For the existing user base, I guess a one-time mass emailing is out of the question, but it could be setup as the same "show it just once" onscreen note with link when users log-in or first time they visit (since the note gets instituted); or alternatively set it up as a persisting-but-timed note with the "x" option to dismiss it, in which case it won't show again.

Cheers,
Christos

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


txercoupemuseum.org
 

Hi Christos,

I cannot think of a more sure way to make owners and moderators of “simple” groups that focus on limited subjects tear their hair out than to do this.  If an owner or moderator wants to make a full time job (unpaid) of managing their group(s), this would immediately and irreversibly do that!

My people (and I) could care less about most of the almost infinite complications interminably discussed on GMF, and I have no intention whatsoever of letting that genie out of the bottle.  To my knowledge, nothing would keep them from joining [beta].

We are an aircraft technical group, not a “group management” group.  Anyone who wants to can join or quit and contribute or not as they see fit.  Over twenty years, only one person has been thrown out.

Lengthy discussions as to what is or is not possible on Groups.io since our forced migration has been extremely limited and carried on “off list”.  On our forums this would be considered by this owner as “off topic” and I don’t believe such subscriber involvement should be encouraged.

That said, every group has its own reasons to exist.  I fully understand that one size DOES NOT “fit all”.  But I would strenuously object if notification to “...all types of new GIO account users…” were automatically incorporated as it would raise issues in my groups I would much prefer remain “sleeping dogs”.

Best!

WRB

— 

On Jan 24, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Christos G. Psarras <christos@...> wrote:

J brought up a good point in the sub settings topic:

> No group members I know of read the manual or even know that it exists.
 
This may have fallen through the cracks ever since the Help Center was created, but why not include some info blurb and the links to the manuals (help center landing page) in the account confirmation message?  Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?  And possibly also post it on the landing page (with the profile edit blurb and links) where the new user is landed when they click the new-account confirmation link, or the first time they manually log-in? 

Doing both ensures all types of new GIO account users are served, done manually by the user or through DirectAdded / Invite.

It should help with the visibility issue.  (said message could also possibly include any other basic-basic-info-to-the-average-user we may want to also include)

For the existing user base, I guess a one-time mass emailing is out of the question, but it could be setup as the same "show it just once" onscreen note with link when users log-in or first time they visit (since the note gets instituted); or alternatively set it up as a persisting-but-timed note with the "x" option to dismiss it, in which case it won't show again.

Cheers,
Christos
_._,_._,_


Duane
 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 03:27 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?
I've had the following wording in all of my groups Welcome message since June 1, 2020:
There's a manual available for members to learn more about how the site works at https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual.  There is a PDF version that can be downloaded.

I also include a blurb about it at the bottom of the Guidelines that go out monthly and have a sticky topic on each group.  It doesn't appear to help much, but at least it's readily available.

Duane


 

>>> Yes, the help pages are great. But they have their place. And their place is not to prevent mishaps or bad combinations of settings that can and should be prevented by the UI.


Definitely, nobody (even me) is arguing that; the point of my topic was to increase visibility to the water bowl, even if we can't make them drink any; at least this way they cannot claim or blame us for not letting them know where to have a sip of water.

Cheers,
Christos



 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:
send a separate Welcome message (once)
I think a second welcome message separate from one the group they're joining sends out just looks like more spam to new users. But groups could include links to the help page in their own welcome messages. I will amend ours to include that. That said, people tend to ignore welcome messages; they even ignore the group guidelines when they get them. It's like "bla bla bla" with not even a "do you agree to this" click. The vast majority of my group members don't read the guidelines, even though we say right at the top stuff like "please read, our guidelines are stricter than in many other groups, failure to abide by them might result in removal." It's all like that cartoon about the dog Ginger. What we say to dogs: "Stay out of the trash, Ginger! Ginger, I told you a million times, stay out of the trash!" What they hear: "Bla bla, Ginger! Ginger, bla bla!"

Yes, the help pages are great. But they have their place. And their place is not to prevent mishaps or bad combinations of settings that can and should be prevented by the UI.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I am right.

My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

J brought up a good point in the sub settings topic:

> No group members I know of read the manual or even know that it exists.
 
This may have fallen through the cracks ever since the Help Center was created, but why not include some info blurb and the links to the manuals (help center landing page) in the account confirmation message?  Or even better, send a separate Welcome message (once) to the user with that info & link after the account gets confirmed?  And possibly also post it on the landing page (with the profile edit blurb and links) where the new user is landed when they click the new-account confirmation link, or the first time they manually log-in? 

Doing both ensures all types of new GIO account users are served, done manually by the user or through DirectAdded / Invite.

It should help with the visibility issue.  (said message could also possibly include any other basic-basic-info-to-the-average-user we may want to also include)

For the existing user base, I guess a one-time mass emailing is out of the question, but it could be setup as the same "show it just once" onscreen note with link when users log-in or first time they visit (since the note gets instituted); or alternatively set it up as a persisting-but-timed note with the "x" option to dismiss it, in which case it won't show again.

Cheers,
Christos