Topics

moderated drafts disappearing - bad #bug


 

Three, maybe even four times tonight I've worked on a detailed draft of a message, gone outside the composition window to look something up, and come back to find the draft entirely gone except for the original first sentence.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I now can't reproduce this. Did anyone else experience it? I had to use two windows on groups.io, one for my ongoing draft and one fo look up other things (because the draft kept disappearing), but after finally sending the message, I went into my test group to try to reproduce the bug and couldn't.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Jeremy H
 

I have found - over the years - that half written messages in groups.io have a tendancy to disappear - while there is an automatic feature to save draft messages, I have never quite understood quite when it actually would do so; and would much prefer to have a manual option...

Jeremy


 

I’ve never had drafts disappear before yesterday. They’d always, up until then,been saved automatically the moment I started typing. I would definitely not want to have to save them manually. The automatic saving of drafts is a great (and IMO needed) feature, and came about through need.

What currently is not saved are drafts of edits of pending messages (and I do wish those could be saved as well). That was definitely not the situation with the glitch I experienced last night. But it might be the issue you are noticing if you see drafts disappearing a lot.


On Sep 29, 2020, at 6:06 AM, Jeremy H via groups.io <jeremygharrison@...> wrote:

I have found - over the years - that half written messages in groups.io have a tendancy to disappear - while there is an automatic feature to save draft messages, I have never quite understood quite when it actually would do so; and would much prefer to have a manual option...

Jeremy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:06 AM, Jeremy H wrote:
while there is an automatic feature to save draft messages, I have never quite understood quite when it actually would do so
In my situation, I see drafts lost on a regular basis, and not only on GIO.  I'm in a somewhat remote area with minimal options for internet access.  I've managed to find utilities that will show a 'live' icon on my computer so that I know when access is lost (sort of like the modem lights of days gone by. ;>)  At that point, I try to get back online so I don't waste a lot of time typing something that can't possibly get to the site where it could be included in a draft.  Until the browser folks come up with a local draft cache (if that's even possible), there's not much that any site can do about it.

Duane


 

Yes, it did occur to me I may have gone offline. But that did not seem to be the case. I was able to load other stuff with no problem in between writing revisions of the message (which were never saved beyond, inexplicably, the first sentence), and the not-saving went on for a period of about 20 minutes. It’s possible that very coincidentally I went offline for just the few seconds each time a draft should have been saved. I’ll never forget a podcast I heard years ago on NPR by two statisticians (with great senses of humor, BTW) about coincidences. So it’s possible. 


On Sep 29, 2020, at 6:34 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 08:06 AM, Jeremy H wrote:
while there is an automatic feature to save draft messages, I have never quite understood quite when it actually would do so
In my situation, I see drafts lost on a regular basis, and not only on GIO.  I'm in a somewhat remote area with minimal options for internet access.  I've managed to find utilities that will show a 'live' icon on my computer so that I know when access is lost (sort of like the modem lights of days gone by. ;>)  At that point, I try to get back online so I don't waste a lot of time typing something that can't possibly get to the site where it could be included in a draft.  Until the browser folks come up with a local draft cache (if that's even possible), there's not much that any site can do about it.

Duane

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

This is happening again in spades tonight and I'm certain I'm not going offline. And the message I'm trying to post is very technical and complicated so this is extremely frustrating. I don't know what can be done to diagnose this behavior but I'm ready to give up and create a word document and paste it in.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I can further characterize the behavior, in case it helps: the system seems to get stuck on the first draft, no matter how many times I change or add to it. And it happens when I go outside the composition window to check on something else on the site, usually either a file or another message.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Mo
 

I have also discovered this, but also found one example that is re-creatable.

My mobile phone is great for taking photo's but terrible for uploading pictures, it runs out of memory and is unable to load.

Showing me this message wipes my draft copy - its my phone that error's, so not sure why it does this.  I now upload images to photo's/files and link from there instead.  Taken me ages to put 2+2 together.

Hope this helps to contribute to a solution.  

Having a "Save draft" button would solve all the random weird behaviour observed by differing users.


 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 03:28 AM, Mo wrote:
Having a "Save draft" button would solve all the random weird behaviour observed by differing users.
Maybe. I'd be in favor of that now. In my case I don't think the problem is with my device. I think it's a clue that the system gets stuck on the first draft, no matter how many times I add to or edit it. Nevertheless, a "save draft" button would be very helpful. I did end up having to copy/paste a word doc last night (which results in formatting issues). I don't want to constantly being worried about this. The system seems to know when I'm writing a complicated message and only does it then. :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Three, maybe even four times tonight I've worked on a detailed draft of a message, gone outside the composition window to look something up, and come back to find the draft entirely gone except for the original first sentence.
J - Here's an idea, portions of which may be in error. If so, I'm sure Mark will correct me.

Asynchronous communication between the client and host (I believe groups.io uses jQuery) depends on certain actionable activities. Typing in the editor is not one of them -- sending every keystroke would take too much bandwidth. So those edits are cached locally. I don't know exactly what actions cause a draft to be saved, but it would make sense that if it only happens when you click away from the editor in that browser tab. If such an action occurs when you're not connected, logged out, or you otherwise manage to clear the cached changes, the intervening edits are lost.

Unlike GIO, my webmail forces me to log into the provider's portal at least once a day. I have often hit "send" only to discover that the login expired while composing the message, losing everything I'd written. It's irritating.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


 

Bruce,
I was ready to entertain an idea like that at the beginning. But certain features of this, like the fact that it saves the first drsftvand only the first draft, even over the course of about 15 minutes of repeatedly rewriting and adding to it, and the fact that I am definitely not logged out or I would be unable to access other content on the site during at least one of the many interim periods, make me skeptical at this point. I do hope Mark will offer his thoughts.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 6:42 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Three, maybe even four times tonight I've worked on a detailed draft of a message, gone outside the composition window to look something up, and come back to find the draft entirely gone except for the original first sentence.
J - Here's an idea, portions of which may be in error. If so, I'm sure Mark will correct me.

Asynchronous communication between the client and host (I believe groups.io uses jQuery) depends on certain actionable activities. Typing in the editor is not one of them -- sending every keystroke would take too much bandwidth. So those edits are cached locally. I don't know exactly what actions cause a draft to be saved, but it would make sense that if it only happens when you click away from the editor in that browser tab. If such an action occurs when you're not connected, logged out, or you otherwise manage to clear the cached changes, the intervening edits are lost.

Unlike GIO, my webmail forces me to log into the provider's portal at least once a day. I have often hit "send" only to discover that the login expired while composing the message, losing everything I'd written. It's irritating.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Jim Wilson
 

I'm definitely in favor of either a physical button or some indication that the draft was saved. For instance, within a few seconds of tapping the last character, Gmail displays "Draft saved" in grey text within the header of a new messages or in the upper right-hand corner of replies created online.

I don't think I've had drafts disappear but having no indication that a draft is saved has been a worrisome problem for me.
--
Jim


Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 08:52 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
the fact that it saves the first drsftvand only the first draft
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.

Duane


 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 07:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm not seeing that.  Mine is saving each draft when I leave the composition page.
Not sure I understand the comment..?? You're not seeing that because you're not experiencing the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Marv Waschke
 

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv


 

The problem with using word for groups.io is the formatting is incompatible.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 8:04 AM, Marv Waschke <marv@...> wrote:

It appears to me that there is either a bug, or at least difficult to predict behavior, lurking here somewhere. However, I have to say that I gave up on online drafts in all applications, not just gio, long ago in self-defense. Defects and unpredictable behavior in this area are everywhere. As a habit, I draft any writing of any length locally, usually in Word. Life is too short and humans too frail for me to expect perfect code. Best, Marv

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


 

Thanks, Mark, for nailing this down. That’s exactly what happens. I do use Firefox.

 I’ll try to remember to keep two separate windows open on groups.io until you come up with a fix. Not using the back arrow would be really hard. 


On Oct 20, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:


Hi All,

I've spent a bunch of time researching this and trying to reproduce it. Here is what I believe is the bug:

- Using Firefox (it's not reproducible in Chrome or Safari), start a reply to a message.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Go to the drafts page and click the draft to continue editing it.
- Make a change in the draft.
- Navigate to another page or site.
- Hit the back button to return to the draft.
- See that your change is no longer there.

I don't know if or when I'll be able to figure out how to fix it. In the meantime, you have a couple options: 

- Don't use Firefox
- Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.

Thanks,
Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one.

Thanks,
Duane