Topics

moderated List-Post header option for individual groups #suggestion


Drew
 

The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.

Drew


 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM Drew <pubx1@...> wrote:

The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.

Can you give me some more information as to why the Reply To Sender stuff is a problem for your group? And what would the List-Post header get you?

Thanks,
Mark 


Drew
 

Thanks, Mark.

Since there is no Reply-To-Sender message footer link in plaintext formatted groups like ours we must either copy & paste the email address between headers in the mail reader, or click the View/Reply Online footer link, which then requires several more button clicks (REPLY, PRIVATE, QUOTE).

This necessitates an explanation from moderators every time they ask a subscriber to "take it off-list"; and posting of reminders to the group on the steps required for replying to sender only, whether online or by copy/pasting headers.

With the List-Post header in effect (referring to the Thunderbird mail reader; I assume others are similar...) we will have one-click buttons for replying to either the group or to sender only, with message text being fully quoted in the reply. (I notice that message text is not quoted in replies via the footer link in html formatted groups and must be copy & pasted by hand.)

The List-Post behavior is familiar to our members, many of whom subscribe to GNU Mailman (or other popular software) mailing list groups.

Drew

On 09/02/20 15:33, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM Drew <@af2z <mailto:@af2z>> wrote:
The various Reply To Sender contortions continues to be an
irritating hassle for our group. Would it be possible to implement
the List-Post email header as an option for those groups that want
it? It was formerly removed from system wide use at Groups.io but it
would be a welcomed optional feature for some groups.
Can you give me some more information as to why the Reply To Sender stuff is a problem for your group? And what would the List-Post header get you?
Thanks,
Mark


 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:12 PM Drew <pubx1@...> wrote:

Since there is no Reply-To-Sender message footer link in plaintext
formatted groups like ours we must either copy & paste the email address
between headers in the mail reader, or click the View/Reply Online
footer link, which then requires several more button clicks (REPLY,
PRIVATE, QUOTE).

This necessitates an explanation from moderators every time they ask a
subscriber to "take it off-list"; and posting of reminders to the group
on the steps required for replying to sender only, whether online or by
copy/pasting headers.


Just refreshed my memory by looking back at the old topics addressing this. I have a suggestion. You can use the new `Reply To Followers Only` topic setting to move discussions `off-list` (that is, hidden from the rest of the group). No need for your members to change their behavior, no need for you to post reminders on the list. If you see this happening, you can just change the reply-to setting of the topic to this new setting and any further replies only go to the topic participants and not the entire group. You could also set up a hashtag to automatically set a topic to that setting.


Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:45 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
You can use the new `Reply To Followers Only` topic setting to move discussions `off-list` (that is, hidden from the rest of the group). No need for your members to change their behavior, no need for you to post reminders on the list. If you see this happening, you can just change the reply-to setting of the topic to this new setting and any further replies only go to the topic participants and not the entire group.
Mark -- I'm starting to get more than a little confused.

Are "follow topic" records now being created for the originator of a topic (and those who reply to it) regardless of the topic/group/hashtag setting?

There won't be a corresponding footer link, so it seems that before Drew could change the topic's reply-to setting, he'd need to first send a reply to the group (within the same topic) stating that it's is being taken off-list and those who want to continue receiving it need to follow it via the web interface. Otherwise, it seems that even some of those already participating in the conversation might mysteriously cease to receive subsequent messages.

Perhaps there's a fine point I'm missing...

Regards,
Bruce


 

I'm reminded of a prior suggestion I made here about a "Like" automatically creating a follow record. Can that be done? If the person Unlikes, I don't think you'd have to worry about unfollowing. (Or you could.)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 10:10 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:45 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
You can use the new `Reply To Followers Only` topic setting to move discussions `off-list` (that is, hidden from the rest of the group). No need for your members to change their behavior, no need for you to post reminders on the list. If you see this happening, you can just change the reply-to setting of the topic to this new setting and any further replies only go to the topic participants and not the entire group.
Mark -- I'm starting to get more than a little confused.

Are "follow topic" records now being created for the originator of a topic (and those who reply to it) regardless of the topic/group/hashtag setting?


No sir. The act of setting an existing topic to `Reply To Followers Only` automatically sets up follow topic records for the person who started the topic as well as everyone who replied.


Mark


Drew
 

That will not work for us. We would like to have both options available to individual subscribers: most replies will go to the group by default; less often individuals will want to go off-list.

For example: items for sale or trade are sometimes posted to the entire group; there may be followup inquiries or comments about the items from other subscribers, also of interest to the entire group. But occasionally someone will want to make particular arrangements for the sale or trade, shipping, payment, etc that should be taken off-list. The current limitations are very inconvenient for this purpose.

There are also other occasions, non topic specific, that it would be preferable for subscribers to have a simple way to go off-list.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On 09/03/20 11:44, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 6:12 PM Drew <@af2z <mailto:@af2z>> wrote:
Since there is no Reply-To-Sender message footer link in plaintext
formatted groups like ours we must either copy & paste the email
address
between headers in the mail reader, or click the View/Reply Online
footer link, which then requires several more button clicks (REPLY,
PRIVATE, QUOTE).
This necessitates an explanation from moderators every time they ask a
subscriber to "take it off-list"; and posting of reminders to the group
on the steps required for replying to sender only, whether online or by
copy/pasting headers.
Just refreshed my memory by looking back at the old topics addressing this. I have a suggestion. You can use the new `Reply To Followers Only` topic setting to move discussions `off-list` (that is, hidden from the rest of the group). No need for your members to change their behavior, no need for you to post reminders on the list. If you see this happening, you can just change the reply-to setting of the topic to this new setting and any further replies only go to the topic participants and not the entire group. You could also set up a hashtag to automatically set a topic to that setting.
Mark


Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 07:04 PM, Drew wrote:
But occasionally someone will want to make particular arrangements for the sale or trade, shipping, payment, etc that should be taken off-list. The current limitations are very inconvenient for this purpose.

There are also other occasions, non topic specific, that it would be preferable for subscribers to have a simple way to go off-list.
Drew -- If you allow (or maybe even force) html messages and do not click the "remove other reply options" box in settings there should be a "Reply to Sender" link in the message footer. 

Why is it again that you are unable to take advantage of this? Right now it seems like you're asking Mark to do something to overcome a self-imposed limitation. Not trying to be snarky but I guess I just don't get it yet.

Regards,
Bruce


Dave Sergeant
 

I would comment that all email messages already contain the email
address of the poster in the 'FROM' field althouth they are munged in
many cases for DMARC purposes but it is hardly that complicated to
de-munge them. I have been doing that for years.

Dave

On 3 Sep 2020 at 16:58, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Drew -- If you allow (or maybe even force) html messages and do not
click the "remove other reply options" box in settings there should be a
"Reply to Sender" link in the message footer.

Why is it again that you are unable to take advantage of this? Right now
it seems like you're asking Mark to do something to overcome a
self-imposed limitation. Not trying to be snarky but I guess I just
don't get it yet.

http://davesergeant.com


Drew
 

On 09/03/20 18:58, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Drew -- If you allow (or maybe even force) html messages and do not click the "remove other reply options" box in settings there should be a "Reply to Sender" link in the message footer.

Hi Bruce.

No, there is no Reply To Sender footer link in received plaintext message posts (only View/Reply Online; Mute This Topic; Group Owner; Unsubscribe.)



Why is it again that you are unable to take advantage of this? Right now it seems like you're asking Mark to do something to overcome a self-imposed limitation. Not trying to be snarky but I guess I just don't get it yet.

We would like our email subscribers to have an easy & convenient way to choose between replying either to the group, or to the sender alone. Currently, in order to reply to sender alone one of the following methods must be used:

Method 1:

Edit the To/From headers (the exact procedure varies with email client, complicating guidance to our several thousand users).

Method 2:

- Click "View/Reply Online" footer link;
- Click Reply;
- Click Private;
- Click Quote.

These methods are complicated enough to discourage adoption among subscribers, even with continued reminders and instruction. (Typically moderator involvement with this issue requires determining one subscriber's email address and providing it to another with the suggestion that they contact off-list; obviously, not an efficient use of moderators' time.)

A group that chooses to select the proposed List-Post option setting would have a List-Post header inserted into all group message traffic, for example:

list-post: <mailto:YOUR_GROUP@groups.io>

The list-post header has the effect of making available to email subscribers in their mail client a one-click option for replying to the group or replying privately to the sender alone. (At least in the very popular Thunderbird mail software; I assume similar convenience in other applications.)

The List-Post header was adopted briefly system-wide in the past in Groups.io but was removed due to complaints, details I don't recall. I am requesting an optional group-specific setting for those groups who choose to use it.


Drew


Regards,
Bruce


Duane
 

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 02:48 PM, Drew wrote:
On 09/03/20 18:58, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Drew -- If you allow (or maybe even force) html messages and do not click the "remove other reply options" box in settings there should be a "Reply to Sender" link in the message footer.

Hi Bruce.

No, there is no Reply To Sender footer link in received plaintext message posts (only View/Reply Online; Mute This Topic; Group Owner; Unsubscribe.)

That is known, hence Bruce's suggestion.  All of your messages would then contain that footer.

Duane