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moderated Cannot reply from +owner address #suggestion


Bruce Bowman
 

When starting a New Topic, a pull-down menu for the From address allows me to select whether I'm posting from my home address or the +owner address. This option is missing when replying to an existing topic. The reason for this difference in behavior is not apparent to me.

This post was prompted by a question that was recently asked in GMF.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bruce


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 03:49 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
This post was prompted by a question that was recently asked in GMF.
I made the same request in April 2018; see #16576.

Chris


Jeremy H
 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 04:39 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 03:49 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
This post was prompted by a question that was recently asked in GMF.
I made the same request in April 2018; see #16576.

Chris
... and I did in May (2020)  - see #25135

Any others?

Jeremy


 

Hi All,

The reply form now has a selector to select replying from the +owner address, if you're a moderator.

Cheers,
Mark


Chris Jones
 

Excellent; many thanks for that.

Chris


Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 09:33 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
select replying from the +owner address, if you're a moderator.
This approach is incorrect as far as I'm concerned.  There are three distinct membership levels, Member, Moderator and Owner, and unless someone is defined as an Owner I don't believe they be able to send messages are though they are. A Moderator with as many permissions as an Owner can give them, is still a Moderator, not an Owner and being able to send messages with a From address of +owner is fundamentally wrong.  This option should be restricted to Owners only.

Andy


Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 06:44 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
A Moderator with as many permissions as an Owner can give them, is still a Moderator, not an Owner and being able to send messages with a From address of +owner is fundamentally wrong.  This option should be restricted to Owners only.
Andy -- Even before yesterday's change, Moderators (and Owners) have been able to send +owner messages using New Topic (see the original request). The change recently implemented only extends that same behavior to replies. In addition, any Moderator with access to the Member List could send an +owner message to individuals via the Send Message dialog. Similarly, Moderators who review Pending messages may send private messages to the sender via the +owner address.

Your proposal is an unrelated change that would need to occur in several places, and I wonder what impact it might have on any Moderators who have had a member-management or message moderation function delegated to them.

Regards,
Bruce


Marv Waschke
 

As long as it is clearly documented, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with a moderator able to send under the owner's imprimatur. When I was in business, I frequently designated an assistant to sign for me. Not something to give out lightly, but extremely useful when you are busy and have an assistant you can trust.
Best, Marv


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 05:00 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I wonder what impact it might have on any Moderators who have had a member-management or message moderation function delegated to them.
Bruce, regardless of any member management permissions a Moderator has, unless they have a membership role of Owner, they are not an owner and sending emails as though they are is fundamentally wrong. The fact that Moderators can alter their own settings to choose whether or not to receive +owner emails just compounds the issue.
The change recently implemented only extends that same behavior to replies.
I don't see how extending the problem really helps. If you want someone to send an email as an owner, make them an owner.  If you want a moderator to be able to send messages or replies other than from their own account, have a +moderator address.

Andy


Jeremy H
 

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:21 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
Excellent; many thanks for that.

Chris

 Yes, many thanks.

But something which would make it much better would to amend the 'display name' to make it clear that it was from the owner (e-mail - both on reply, and any initial post) - perhaps by adding '(as Owner)' or similar after normal name - so, e.g. (for me) it would say 'Jeremy H (as Owner)', to make it obvious that was speaking with authority, not just another member.

Jeremy


Jeremy H
 

I agree with Andy that there should be separate +moderator address for moderators (who aren't owners); and would also suggest that use of these (+moderator and +owner) addresses should be controlled by seperate (one for each) moderator privileges.

But will also agree with Marv and Bruce that this would be an extra (and probably much less trivial) change, which will also have implications on the way that at least some groups run themselves; and so should be raised and discussed as such.

Jeremy


Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:08 PM, Jeremy H wrote:
But something which would make it much better would to amend the 'display name' to make it clear that it was from the owner (e-mail - both on reply, and any initial post) - perhaps by adding '(as Owner)' or similar after normal name - so, e.g. (for me) it would say 'Jeremy H (as Owner)', to make it obvious that was speaking with authority, not just another member.
Definitely; that was "No. 2" in my message #16576 in April 2018.

Actually I think there is an (perhaps minor) issue with Display Names, but that's for another topic, perhaps over the weekend.

Chris


Bruce Bowman
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 04:26 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
Bruce, regardless of any member management permissions a Moderator has, unless they have a membership role of Owner, they are not an owner and sending emails as though they are is fundamentally wrong. The fact that Moderators can alter their own settings to choose whether or not to receive +owner emails just compounds the issue.
Andy -- I seriously regret that my proposal has brought to light something that some folks feel to be a long-standing problem.

I don't see how extending the problem really helps. If you want someone to send an email as an owner, make them an owner.  If you want a moderator to be able to send messages or replies other than from their own account, have a +moderator address.
This topic is growing increasingly tangential to the original proposal and its implementation. If a new proposal was clearly stated for consideration perhaps we can discuss it further there.

Regards,
Bruce


Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 06:34 PM, Marv Waschke wrote:
I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with a moderator able to send under the owner's imprimatur.
Yes, and when you delegate privileges to send emails in something like Exchange a recipient sees the sender as the equivalent of 'moderator on behalf of owner' so it clearly identifies what's happened.  There is no such distinction in Groups.io. There are lots of things I like about Groups.io but this is certainly not one of them.

Andy


Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 12:47 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I seriously regret that my proposal has brought to light something that some folks feel to be a long-standing problem.
I don't think it is a long - standing problem at all; is there any evidence that some moderators somewhere have abused the capability to post messages to either a whole group or to individual members in the name of the group owner?

In the absence of that evidence (and I have no recollection of the issue being raised either here or on GMF in the last 2½ years or so) I would conclude that any problem is more theoretical than real.

Chris