Topics

moderated Changes to new basic groups #update


 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:35 AM Dave Sergeant <dave@...> wrote:
Does 'attachment as links' work as it does at the moment then (in new
basic groups)?

Yes it does.

Cheers,
Mark 


Dave Sergeant
 

Does 'attachment as links' work as it does at the moment then (in new
basic groups)?

Dave

On 25 Aug 2020 at 9:57, Mark Fletcher wrote:

Because the
Photos section is disabled, there is no 'Emailed Photos' album where you
can view photo attachments.

http://davesergeant.com


paul fox
 

mark wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:12 AM Linda Prain via [1]groups.io
> <ShaktiSystemsDirector=[2]yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> So if I'm understanding correctly, we can still attached photos, video,
> files to messages and have the 1 GB storage limit, but there will be no
> organized folder structure like Files or Attachments where we can look
> at everything together or upload files separately from posts.
>
> That is correct.
> Mark

Will the group owner still be able to see the Photos/Files sections, in
order to do cleanup, etc?

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 79.9 degrees)


 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:12 AM Linda Prain via groups.io <ShaktiSystemsDirector=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
So if I'm understanding correctly, we can still attached photos, video, files to messages and have the 1 GB storage limit, but there will be no organized folder structure like Files or Attachments where we can look at everything together or upload files separately from posts.

That is correct.

Mark 


Linda Prain
 

So if I'm understanding correctly, we can still attached photos, video, files to messages and have the 1 GB storage limit, but there will be no organized folder structure like Files or Attachments where we can look at everything together or upload files separately from posts.

Regards, Linda


 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 10:09 AM lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:
What changes for old existing free groups?


Nothing.

Cheers,
Mark 


lloyd lehrer
 

What changes for old existing free groups?

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 9:58 AM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 9:35 AM Linda Prain via groups.io <ShaktiSystemsDirector=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Outside of that frustration, can you give me some guidelines as to how files, photos or attachments will be handled in a new basic (i.e. free) group?  Are they simply not allowed?  Are they retained for a short period of time and then deleted?  I'd like to understand where I can find more about the new basic functionality to ascertain if this is going to work for us.  A premium service is simply something we can't afford on an ongoing basis.  Kind regards, Linda Prain


The Files and Photos sections for new Basic groups are disabled. Attachments sent to Basic groups work as they always have. Because the Photos section is disabled, there is no 'Emailed Photos' album where you can view photo attachments. 

Hope this helps.
Mark


 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 9:35 AM Linda Prain via groups.io <ShaktiSystemsDirector=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Outside of that frustration, can you give me some guidelines as to how files, photos or attachments will be handled in a new basic (i.e. free) group?  Are they simply not allowed?  Are they retained for a short period of time and then deleted?  I'd like to understand where I can find more about the new basic functionality to ascertain if this is going to work for us.  A premium service is simply something we can't afford on an ongoing basis.  Kind regards, Linda Prain


The Files and Photos sections for new Basic groups are disabled. Attachments sent to Basic groups work as they always have. Because the Photos section is disabled, there is no 'Emailed Photos' album where you can view photo attachments. 

Hope this helps.
Mark


Linda Prain
 

Wow.  I can't believe I have a need for a new group and am now just seeing I just missed this change by 1 day.  I really wish you would have emailed all your group Admins and owners for those of us that don't come to this beta. group site on a regular basis.  This is an important enough change that it seems prudent to make sure that your groups owners knew about it in advance.  

Outside of that frustration, can you give me some guidelines as to how files, photos or attachments will be handled in a new basic (i.e. free) group?  Are they simply not allowed?  Are they retained for a short period of time and then deleted?  I'd like to understand where I can find more about the new basic functionality to ascertain if this is going to work for us.  A premium service is simply something we can't afford on an ongoing basis.  Kind regards, Linda Prain


 

Oh, ok. When I heard “mailing list only” I thought “yahoo.”


On Aug 12, 2020, at 12:28 PM, Glenn Glazer <glenn.glazer@...> wrote:


On 8/12/2020 12:18, J_Catlady wrote:
Ok, it's clear now. But a description of what was staying as "mailing list features only" would not normally include a message archive

I think that depends on your mailing list. Both Google Groups and mailman provide web message archives.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Glenn Glazer
 

On 8/12/2020 12:18, J_Catlady wrote:
Ok, it's clear now. But a description of what was staying as "mailing list features only" would not normally include a message archive

I think that depends on your mailing list. Both Google Groups and mailman provide web message archives.

Best,

Glenn

--
PG&E Delenda Est

Virus-free. www.avast.com


 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
That's why I listed the changes in terms of what was being removed, not what was staying. All message/topic editing stuff will still exist. All subscription options will still exist. All archive viewing pages will still exist.
Ok, it's clear now. But a description of what was staying as "mailing list features only" would not normally include a message archive (let alone one loaded with incredible features;), so at that point the list of what was being removed left me confused and seeking a better description.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:55 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.
That's an improvement. But I think the list is still not complete. What about message and topic editing features, including editing, merge, split, moderate, lock, etc.?


That's why I listed the changes in terms of what was being removed, not what was staying. All message/topic editing stuff will still exist. All subscription options will still exist. All archive viewing pages will still exist.

Thanks,
Mark


 

That much the better for groups.io.


On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:02 PM Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm@...> wrote:

Mark,

 

Yahoo also killed moderation and daily digests. So your only option if someone posts in-appropriately is to expel them from the group.

Pretty much useless…

 

Dave

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 12 August 2020 18:46
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Changes to new basic groups #updates

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

 

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

 

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

 

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

 

Hope this helps.

Mark

 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Dave Wade
 

Mark,

 

Yahoo also killed moderation and daily digests. So your only option if someone posts in-appropriately is to expel them from the group.

Pretty much useless…

 

Dave

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 12 August 2020 18:46
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Changes to new basic groups #updates

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

 

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

 

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

 

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

 

Hope this helps.

Mark

 


 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.
That's an improvement. But I think the list is still not complete. What about message and topic editing features, including editing, merge, split, moderate, lock, etc.?

I think at some point it will be necessary to list all features explicitly and have one of those column checkbox tables where you put a check in the box or not for each feature, for each kind of plan. It may be ok to tell *us* that "If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off" but clearly, that won't be sufficient for marketing and is evidently confusing even us old-timers. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:29 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

Hmm, I didn't realize Yahoo killed the archive as well.

Maybe this is a better description; as I just posted in another topic:

All the existing moderation functions will be enabled. All the existing message viewing features will be enabled.  All the existing hashtag features will be enabled.

If you want to approximate a new basic group, go into group settings, and in the Features panel, turn everything off. (You will still be able to set the max size of photos in emails.)

Hope this helps.
Mark
 


 

I think there has been a lot of miscommunicatio in this thread, starting with Mark's statement that "Basic groups created after that time will be limited to mailing list features only." That's what made me (wrongly) think "yahoo." Because to me, "mailing list features only" does not include, for example, even a message archive. That's the way yahoo went - mailing list only, no web features AT ALL. In the next sentence Mark goes on the list what is NOT included. But nowhere does he state clearly exactly what WILL BE included.

I think instead of describing the new basic groups as "limited to mailing list features only," it would be helpful to list exactly what is meant by "mailing list features." The description doesn't cover all features as included or not included. That would help.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 11:55 AM, Dave Sergeant wrote:
when the rest of your groups hear
about them I doubt they will be happy.
I don't understand why that would be.  Nothing will change on their groups.  A lot of people seem to be skipping over that part.  See https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25916.

In rereading Mark's original message, I don't see anything in there about the price going up for paid groups either.  Hey, if enough groups go premium, it could even go down! ;>)

Duane


paul fox
 

dave wrote:
> ...no mechanism for organising payments and no membership fee at
> all...

Likewise, I'm a member of 4 or 5 groups, none of which are "formal"
clubs, and have no associated dues or payments. All of them are Basic
groups, and are perfectly happy with the services that gives. None of
them use the calendar or the wiki or the database -- just messages, and
modest use of photos, and files, so upgrading to Premium makes no
sense, even if folks might be willing to pay "something".

It's not like these groups don't appreciate that they're getting
something for nothing. I've actually gotten the sense that many
people would be more than happy to help defray Mark's costs, but the
fact is there's no easy way (that I know of) for individuals to make
donations to groups.io itself. Right now someone has to take on the
bill-paying role, and arrange to be reimbursed by the group members.

I think a mechanism that allowed direct "many-to-Mark" payments would
a) encourage voluntary donations, from folks using Basic services, and
b) make the leap from Basic to Premium a lot less daunting for groups
that could make use of the added services, but whose owner(s) might
not want to deal with the fund-raising aspects.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 86.4 degrees)