On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:10 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

on the Chats screen, a count of unread messages in the same way that the number of pending messages or subscription requests are shown.

Hmm. It seems that feature already exists. I may not have refreshed my browser page as I thought.

Andy

With the introduction of push notifications we can get an immediate notice if a chat starts via the #chat-notice tag.  What would make this little used feature of Groups.io (my impression) more useful is if push notifications could be enabled for individual chat messages and on the Chats screen, a count of unread messages in the same way that the number of pending messages or subscription requests are shown.

Regards,
Andy

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 07:58 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

This hints at two other things to watch for: Group Guidelines and Monthly Reminder. These particular notifications can only be created by a group moderator, so I don't think they need to obey any group-wide moderation setting when posting (and they haven't, to date).

I'd also be interested to know what plans may be in the works for the integration hashtags (#email, #feed, etc).

Bruce

It’s not a bad idea. It’s not as if there’s not already the ability to delete messages from the archives, so it doesn’t violate anything sacred. But this is way off topic.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

J,

So there’s now a no-archive option on topics (and hashtags)?

No, that was just my proposal.

I do think it would fill the bill as a per-notification off switch. But it is a bit of a sharp edged tool that might be confusing if misapplied to ordinary group postings.

Shal

No, totally. There has to be a way to turn them off, I agree. It’s just a funny way of doing it. (I know Mark has now provided another way.) So there’s now a no-archive option on topics (and hashtags)? Seriously?

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

J,

Lol no-archive, no-email. I’ll have ham and eggs but hold the ham and
hold the eggs. 😊

Yup, you get what you deserve: nothing.

But that's precisely what some group owners have said they want with respect to the new notifications.

Shal

Shal,
Lol no-archive, no-email. I’ll have ham and eggs but hold the ham and hold the eggs. 😊

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

J,

Shal's crazy-brilliant idea of setting the tags to "moderated," as
well as to "no email," should work for most people meanwhile.

Also for the record, I didn't come up with those. But I have been repeating them. Wish I remembered who deserves due credit.

I did suggest "No Archive" as a new counterpart to "No Email" though.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25029

Shal

J,

That's odd. Mine are sent monthly but have only the #guidelines
hashtag.

Whoops, right you are.

The #monthly was in the Subject box of the notice's page; so I probably did that.

Shal

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 04:58 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

Currently (as of 06-01) the monthly group guidelines message has two hashtags: #monthly #guidelines;

That's odd. Mine are sent monthly but have only the #guidelines hashtag.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Mark,

#cal-invite messages will be moderated. #cal-notice and #cal-reminder
messages will continue to not be moderated even if the group is
moderated. Seems complicated.

The calendar always has been, and looks like it will remain, a problem child. I think it is because it can cause an action at a future date/time, and that action's point is at least blunted, if not defeated, if the action doesn't happen on schedule.

This hints at two other things to watch for: Group Guidelines and Monthly Reminder. These particular notifications can only be created by a group moderator, so I don't think they need to obey any group-wide moderation setting when posting (and they haven't, to date).

Currently (as of 06-01) the monthly group guidelines message has two hashtags: #monthly #guidelines; perhaps that should consolidate to #guidelines-notice. The Monthly Reminder has none; perhaps it should have #monthly-notice. Just to fit the pattern.

Shal

Mark,

They all bypass the group setting of moderating all messages.

This should be fixed now.

I hope you didn't include the cal-xxxx notices in this fix. Group members won't likely be happy about late event reminders & notices.

Shal

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 02:20 PM, Duane wrote:

I've just discovered a serious problem with these notifications.

Mark; I think I've found another one; the group I moderate uses hashtahgs (very) sparingly to minimise misuse or overuse. Although I remain puzzled about the apparent disappearance of the -notice feature (my #25467 refers) a couple of tests I have conducted suggest that these new "system" hashtags appear in the pick - list of hashtags that can be used by members (and moderators, come to that) and that availability for public use is something that our group would definitely not want; as far as I can see there would be no method of preventing their use by members.

Chris

Mark,

They all bypass the group setting of moderating all messages. ...

This should be fixed now.

Ok, now they are held in Pending, but I can't Approve them.

Just now when I tried to approve a #wiki-notice by email nothing happened.

Earlier when I tried to approve one by web it ended up "claimed" by me instead. Another moderator also tried and failed to approve it, then deleted it instead.

Shal

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 04:31 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Seems to me that the hashtag's "lock topic" mechanism is best reserved to address Chris's concern about people replying to the notification

If I'm honest I am now wondering about the wisdom of that idea, for reasons triggered by Shal's comment. I simply cannot work out in my own head what the optimum (for which read least annoying) settings might be, and being honest again I don't want to spend much time on thinking about it until the situation is more stable than it currently is; with the end point of the development being as yet undefined, any "solution" could turn out to be somewhat short - lived.

Someone - Andy I think - brought up Shal's occasional point about "least astonishment" at some point, and I think that ought to be a guiding principle here.

Chris.

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 09:53 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

Another thing I have noticed (testing some file uploads) is that if you lock the file upload topic in the archive and then do another upload:

a) the upload completes OK
b) a message is placed in the activity log to confirm which file was uploaded
c) no extra message is placed in the archive (as expected because the topic is locked)
d) here is no activity log entry to say that someone tried to send a message to a locked topic

I'm not sure if it is supposed to work that way or not in respect of (d) but it shows that locking the topic can also prevent new notifications being sent. I suspect the threading algorithm is playing a part here and a further upload in a few days time will generate another topic.

Seems to me that the hashtag's "lock topic" mechanism is best reserved to address Chris's concern about people replying to the notification (ref: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/25438).

For that reason I'd actually prefer that each notification appear in its own topic. 

Regards,
Bruce