Topics

moderated "moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" threads not showing moderated icon #bug #fixed


 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 05:00 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
It's the wording of the option that doesn't seem right to me.
Oh, yeah, I agree it's minimally funky, but I can't really see it causing any problems. The mod(s) knows the intended interpretation, and nobody sees it but the mod(s).
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Agree with Duane, you override it and the behavior is expected.


On Jun 8, 2020, at 5:00 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:49 PM, Duane wrote:
The system did it's job, but you manually overrode it, so it's no longer in charge.
Hi Duane,

I'm not saying that the system didn't do its job (first by moderating a topic and then allowing a post straight through when the topic was unmoderated) but what we're left with is a member with an option set that suggests all messages in a topic will be moderated when that is not the case. It's the wording of the option that doesn't seem right to me.

Regards,
Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 12:49 PM, Duane wrote:
The system did it's job, but you manually overrode it, so it's no longer in charge.
Hi Duane,

I'm not saying that the system didn't do its job (first by moderating a topic and then allowing a post straight through when the topic was unmoderated) but what we're left with is a member with an option set that suggests all messages in a topic will be moderated when that is not the case. It's the wording of the option that doesn't seem right to me.

Regards,
Andy


Duane
 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 02:32 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
I then unmoderated the topic using my 'owner' account and posted a second message to the same topic from my 'member' account which went straight through to the group archive. So, now I have a situation where a member account has a posting privilege with a description that contains the text "moderate all messages" and that isn't happening - somewhat confusing and contradictory I think.
I would consider this normal behavior.  The system did it's job, but you manually overrode it, so it's no longer in charge.  If this is something that would occur often, I think the solution would be to make the member moderated.

Duane


 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 02:49 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
The bug is that a group setting of “moderate the first messsge of every topic” is incorrectly taking precedence over a member’s MT status.
Before you reply that those aren't inconsistent: the group setting "moderate the first message of every topic" essentially puts everyone on MF status, which means, "moderate the first message of the topic and then you're done" (i.e., moderate the first message and *only* the first message). The "override" of an individual member's MT status is not happening if the group is set to MF.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I still don’t think the wording matters much but I see your point in the second case. At any rate, there IS a bug (not sure if you saw my subsequent post). The bug is that a group setting of “moderate the first messsge of every topic” is incorrectly taking precedence over a member’s MT status.


On Jun 8, 2020, at 12:32 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 04:33 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
I have just conducted a test elsewhere and found results not consistent with observations made so far.
I've gone back and looked at this again and found my test subgroup was set to "All messages are moderated" (maybe a hangover from a previous test) so in this case the group setting seemed to take precedence over the member "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" setting and I ended up with no moderated icon on the topic and the Moderate Topic option available.

I removed the "All messages are moderated" group setting (leaving just Restricted Membership) and posted a message from my 'member' account that has "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" set. This time, the message was moderated and when released, the topic was moderated and showed the moderated icon.

I then unmoderated the topic using my 'owner' account and posted a second message to the same topic from my 'member' account which went straight through to the group archive. So, now I have a situation where a member account has a posting privilege with a description that contains the text "moderate all messages" and that isn't happening - somewhat confusing and contradictory I think.

If the description was changed to "Override: moderate every topic this person starts" (J's suggestion) it would more accurately reflect what happens in this situation.  I guess a clarification could be made about whether moderation was applied to the topic after the first post was published to the group archive or not by adding a suffix  "Override: moderate every topic this person starts (including the first message)".

Andy


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 04:33 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
I have just conducted a test elsewhere and found results not consistent with observations made so far.
I've gone back and looked at this again and found my test subgroup was set to "All messages are moderated" (maybe a hangover from a previous test) so in this case the group setting seemed to take precedence over the member "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" setting and I ended up with no moderated icon on the topic and the Moderate Topic option available.

I removed the "All messages are moderated" group setting (leaving just Restricted Membership) and posted a message from my 'member' account that has "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" set. This time, the message was moderated and when released, the topic was moderated and showed the moderated icon.

I then unmoderated the topic using my 'owner' account and posted a second message to the same topic from my 'member' account which went straight through to the group archive. So, now I have a situation where a member account has a posting privilege with a description that contains the text "moderate all messages" and that isn't happening - somewhat confusing and contradictory I think.

If the description was changed to "Override: moderate every topic this person starts" (J's suggestion) it would more accurately reflect what happens in this situation.  I guess a clarification could be made about whether moderation was applied to the topic after the first post was published to the group archive or not by adding a suffix  "Override: moderate every topic this person starts (including the first message)".

Andy


 

Ok, mystery solved. It IS a bug.

The bug consists of a conflict between a member's individual MT status and the group's overall setting to moderate the first message of every topic. The group setting took precedence over the individual member's MT and the topic ended up unmoderated; only the first message was moderated.

The fix: a member's MT status should take precedence over a group setting to moderate the first message of every topic.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

I just ran a test and the icon seems to be there and everything is working properly. There is no bug that I can see at this point.

What I can't understand is what went wrong in the case I encountered in my group. I checked and according to the activity log, I did change the member's status to MT before, not after, she sent her first post to the group. How the topic ended up unmoderated is a mystery, but not anything to waste (any more) time on at this point.

Sorry for the false alarm.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override.
Ok, this makes no sense and my initial post incorrectly stated that the OP was NMM. It's impossible for someone to be both NMM and MT. I'll have to see what order these occurred in. I'm nearly positive I set her to MF before her first post (for various valid reasons, don't even ask) but it's possible her post slipped through before the status change. I'll check the whole thing out later today.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:17 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override.
Oh I belatedly see what you're saying. Yes that's a possibility. I'll check it out. Would still be a bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sounds like it to me, also, Bruce. However, "sounds like, shmounds like." I'll run a better test. I do think it's just a matter of the icon, though.


On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 9:18 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In the case I encountered, the OP was also NMM and the responder was on mideration, so both posts came through pending anyway and I assumed the topic moderation was happening.
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override. Thus the message is being moderated but the topic is not.

If the posting override didn't work at all it seems that would have been reported a long time ago. 

Regards,
Bruce


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In the case I encountered, the OP was also NMM and the responder was on mideration, so both posts came through pending anyway and I assumed the topic moderation was happening.
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override. Thus the message is being moderated but the topic is not.

If the posting override didn't work at all it seems that would have been reported a long time ago. 

Regards,
Bruce


 

The email issue is completely separate from this.
I'll run my own test later today.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 03:36 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
In addition to the moderated icon not being displayed as you mentioned, the topic drop-down menu shows a 'Moderate topic' option suggesting that the topic is not moderated which is also incorrect in this case.
Ooer...

I have just conducted a test elsewhere and found results not consistent with observations made so far.

On a test group to which I have access with two memberships I submitted a message from an address that I had set to "Moderate all messages..." 

When I then looked at the web UI the "moderated" icon WAS present. Furthermore the "More" drop down showed UNmoderate topic, meaning that my test result did not confirm Andy's comments quoted above; quite the opposite.

No indication in the resulting email that the topic was moderated though.

Chris


Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 04:20 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?
I find that some members who don't see their post come back almost immediately post the message again, and sometimes more than once, on the basis that they either weren't sure they did it right the first time or they think the message didn't go through for some reason.

Andy


 

That issue is not specific to this bug or this posting status and is a question about moderated topics in general. Maybe take it to GMF?


On Jun 7, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
Although I was aware of the moderation options under discussion I have no personal experience of either, and thus have "no skin in this game".

To me the precise wording of the options seems clear enough, but I would agree that there being no "Moderated" icon against the topic does seem a bit odd.

I also find myself wondering how the use of the "moderate all messages..." option appears to those members who operate by email, which (anecdotally) is most of them. I suspect that the messages sent by Groups.io have no clue in them that the topic is fully moderated, in this case by virtue of the identity of the person who started it.

In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?

Asking for a friend and all that... :)

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
Although I was aware of the moderation options under discussion I have no personal experience of either, and thus have "no skin in this game".

To me the precise wording of the options seems clear enough, but I would agree that there being no "Moderated" icon against the topic does seem a bit odd.

I also find myself wondering how the use of the "moderate all messages..." option appears to those members who operate by email, which (anecdotally) is most of them. I suspect that the messages sent by Groups.io have no clue in them that the topic is fully moderated, in this case by virtue of the identity of the person who started it.

In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?

Asking for a friend and all that... :)

Chris


 

I think now you're saying the topic does get moderated but the icon doesn't display and the option to moderate is still there. So it seems like just a lack of some cleanup. I haven't tested it.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 07:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
an additional bug
or rather, a slightly more serious bug
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu