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moderated "moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" threads not showing moderated icon #bug #fixed

 

Self-explanatory. A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
The specific wording of that option is "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" so it's a message level moderation option rather than a topic level option.

Andy

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:24 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
"Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts"
Having sat at looked at the wording of this option again I can see how 'all messages of every topic' it might be construed to mean that the the topic should be moderated but given that the option itself relates to an individual member that cannot be the case. Moderating a new topic based on the post of a member would then impact other members' ability to post to that topic and I think moderating a topic should be seen as a group level activity rather than one propagated to the group based on a member's settings.

Andy

 

Actually, I was the person who requested, and fought for (lol), that feature, so I know exactly what it does, regardless of wording. It is topic-level moderation.


On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:24 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
The specific wording of that option is "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts" so it's a message level moderation option rather than a topic level option.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

Yes seeing your second message now. It moderates every topic the person starts. This is a simple bug with a thirty second fix. Not worth discussion. It does affect anyone else who posts to the topic, of course, but it is definitely not a group option, just as moderating any individual topic is not a group action. Nuf said. Let’s not rehash this feature?


On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:34 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:24 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:
"Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts"
Having sat at looked at the wording of this option again I can see how 'all messages of every topic' it might be construed to mean that the the topic should be moderated but given that the option itself relates to an individual member that cannot be the case. Moderating a new topic based on the post of a member would then impact other members' ability to post to that topic and I think moderating a topic should be seen as a group level activity rather than one propagated to the group based on a member's settings.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 06:04 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
moderating any individual topic is not a group action
Or you can call it a group-level action but that's just semantics. You can also call it a "topic-level action" that happens to be based on who starts the topic. It doesn't really matter what you call it. There are good reasons for this feature and if it doesn't suit some group's particular needs, they can ignore it.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:02 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
so I know exactly what it does, regardless of wording. It is topic-level moderation.
Well I've gone back and read the option text again and also done some of my own testing. I can see that messages from other members get moderated so it does indicate that the topic is moderated. In addition to the moderated icon not being displayed as you mentioned, the topic drop-down menu shows a 'Moderate topic' option suggesting that the topic is not moderated which is also incorrect in this case.

I have to admit I've learned something new here but I still think the wording on the moderation option "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts " could better indicate that this impacts the topic regardless of who posts rather than just the member where the option is changed.

Andy

 

Good catch on the topic not being moderated at all, an additional bug. In the case I encountered, the OP was also NMM and the responder was on mideration, so both posts came through pending anyway and I assumed the topic moderation was happening. 

The wording, IIRC,  came from an attempt to distinguish the status from MF, which is moderation of the first (rather than every) message in topics the member starts. I agree that changing it to “moderate every topic the member starts” might be incrementally clearer to some, but less clear to others. I have no opinion on it.


On Jun 7, 2020, at 7:36 AM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:02 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
so I know exactly what it does, regardless of wording. It is topic-level moderation.
Well I've gone back and read the option text again and also done some of my own testing. I can see that messages from other members get moderated so it does indicate that the topic is moderated. In addition to the moderated icon not being displayed as you mentioned, the topic drop-down menu shows a 'Moderate topic' option suggesting that the topic is not moderated which is also incorrect in this case.

I have to admit I've learned something new here but I still think the wording on the moderation option "Override: moderate all messages of every topic this person starts " could better indicate that this impacts the topic regardless of who posts rather than just the member where the option is changed.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 07:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
an additional bug
or rather, a slightly more serious bug
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

I think now you're saying the topic does get moderated but the icon doesn't display and the option to moderate is still there. So it seems like just a lack of some cleanup. I haven't tested it.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
Although I was aware of the moderation options under discussion I have no personal experience of either, and thus have "no skin in this game".

To me the precise wording of the options seems clear enough, but I would agree that there being no "Moderated" icon against the topic does seem a bit odd.

I also find myself wondering how the use of the "moderate all messages..." option appears to those members who operate by email, which (anecdotally) is most of them. I suspect that the messages sent by Groups.io have no clue in them that the topic is fully moderated, in this case by virtue of the identity of the person who started it.

In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?

Asking for a friend and all that... :)

Chris

 

That issue is not specific to this bug or this posting status and is a question about moderated topics in general. Maybe take it to GMF?


On Jun 7, 2020, at 8:20 AM, Chris Jones via groups.io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 02:46 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
A member of my group is on "moderate every message of every topic this person starts" but the topics aren't showing the "moderated" icon.
Although I was aware of the moderation options under discussion I have no personal experience of either, and thus have "no skin in this game".

To me the precise wording of the options seems clear enough, but I would agree that there being no "Moderated" icon against the topic does seem a bit odd.

I also find myself wondering how the use of the "moderate all messages..." option appears to those members who operate by email, which (anecdotally) is most of them. I suspect that the messages sent by Groups.io have no clue in them that the topic is fully moderated, in this case by virtue of the identity of the person who started it.

In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?

Asking for a friend and all that... :)

Chris

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Andy Wedge
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 04:20 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
In a generally unmoderated group members will be accustomed to seeing their posts "come back" more or less immediately after they have sent them. If, however, they respond to a topic that is fully moderated there will be a delay of indeterminate length before their message is actually posted and the associated email dispatched. Do they find themselves sitting there wondering "where has my post gone"? In the absence of any flag either on the web UI or within the dispatched emails I would have expected that they would do exactly that, with accompanying head - scratching. 

Has anyone got any practical experience of this, either way?
I find that some members who don't see their post come back almost immediately post the message again, and sometimes more than once, on the basis that they either weren't sure they did it right the first time or they think the message didn't go through for some reason.

Andy

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 03:36 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:
In addition to the moderated icon not being displayed as you mentioned, the topic drop-down menu shows a 'Moderate topic' option suggesting that the topic is not moderated which is also incorrect in this case.
Ooer...

I have just conducted a test elsewhere and found results not consistent with observations made so far.

On a test group to which I have access with two memberships I submitted a message from an address that I had set to "Moderate all messages..." 

When I then looked at the web UI the "moderated" icon WAS present. Furthermore the "More" drop down showed UNmoderate topic, meaning that my test result did not confirm Andy's comments quoted above; quite the opposite.

No indication in the resulting email that the topic was moderated though.

Chris

 

The email issue is completely separate from this.
I'll run my own test later today.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In the case I encountered, the OP was also NMM and the responder was on mideration, so both posts came through pending anyway and I assumed the topic moderation was happening.
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override. Thus the message is being moderated but the topic is not.

If the posting override didn't work at all it seems that would have been reported a long time ago. 

Regards,
Bruce

 

Sounds like it to me, also, Bruce. However, "sounds like, shmounds like." I'll run a better test. I do think it's just a matter of the icon, though.


On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 9:18 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 10:54 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In the case I encountered, the OP was also NMM and the responder was on mideration, so both posts came through pending anyway and I assumed the topic moderation was happening.
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override. Thus the message is being moderated but the topic is not.

If the posting override didn't work at all it seems that would have been reported a long time ago. 

Regards,
Bruce


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 09:17 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override.
Oh I belatedly see what you're saying. Yes that's a possibility. I'll check it out. Would still be a bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It sounds to me that NMM is somehow taking precedence over the posting override.
Ok, this makes no sense and my initial post incorrectly stated that the OP was NMM. It's impossible for someone to be both NMM and MT. I'll have to see what order these occurred in. I'm nearly positive I set her to MF before her first post (for various valid reasons, don't even ask) but it's possible her post slipped through before the status change. I'll check the whole thing out later today.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 

I just ran a test and the icon seems to be there and everything is working properly. There is no bug that I can see at this point.

What I can't understand is what went wrong in the case I encountered in my group. I checked and according to the activity log, I did change the member's status to MT before, not after, she sent her first post to the group. How the topic ended up unmoderated is a mystery, but not anything to waste (any more) time on at this point.

Sorry for the false alarm.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu