Topics

moderated Reporting a pending subscriber #misc


Michael Pavan
 

On May 5, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

For those of you with restricted groups, if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature?
Yes, I would use it.

It should only be available to Owner and/or Moderators,
perhaps only those Moderators with "Approve Pending Messages", "Approve Pending Members", and/or "Ban Members", and perhaps "Remove Members" privileges.

It would filter up to something system wide.
A register of how recently reported, how many reports or groups reporting and over what time span.

Also number of groups it is a member of and for how long - this might help evaluate how seriously to regard these reports of applicants who would be spammers.


Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?

(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:03 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature?
Yes I would, but it might be of limited utility. Only very rarely do we get "suspect" applications, and they never respond to the Pending Subscription mesage. The last time that I am aware of was back in January when there was a small rash of applications from common IP addresses that was flagged up on GMF here. (The topic ran on for 202 messages!) As things stand few applications come from email addresses that just don't look right.

. Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?
One idea that springs to mind is to add a function to the on - line moderation UI for Report as Spam. How easily the equivalent function could be provided for email moderation I won't pretend to know. Obviously that would be of no help for groups that run unmoderated. A further option could be to add Report as Spam to the "More" hamburger so that obvious spam could be reported by just one or two clicks; that might help those unmoderated groups. 

If I really wanted to go on a spammer hunt I would use the Activity log; on the group I moderate (which does not allow non - members to post) the spam is abundantly clear both from the sender's garbage email address and the supposed subject line, but of course there is no way of reporting it as spam from there, even assuming we go to look. I suspect that as this spam happens in sudden bursts and then stops for a while that it is being stopped by spam - killers running in the background. 

One thing that might help is for the applicants' IP addresses to appear on the web UI; I know it is sent in the email version but cross - referencing web UI and emails is a bit tedious. The downside to trying to add it to the web UI is that that page is already cramped when using a 4:3 display unit and adding IP addresses would only make that much worse. (See here for previous post about this!!)

Chris


John Pearce
 

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 03:30 PM, John Pearce wrote:
But waiting a week would defeat the purpose of reporting to groups.io
Chris Jones wrote:
Not necessarily, IMHO. Flagging up too soon might well result in so many false positives that it risks swamping Groups.io with potentially innocent applicants.

Chris, agreed.  I was thinking that a tool might help to identify someone as a spammer more than I could do myself.  I don't know what information a tool Mark is suggesting  might provide.  I found for example one person who applied on the web whose email address tracked to a cloud provider in Florida that is known for allowing spammers and hackers to use their service.  The application aged out.  At this time the only people I would report are people that make it onto the group and then spam.  This has only happened once.  Some guidance as to when to report someone along with the tool would be helpful.

John Pearce


 

I think each of us tends to look at our groups from our own groups’ perspective. Groups run the gamut from laissez faire which pretty much run themselves to strictly controlled and restrictive and everything in between. Interaction with group members ranges from engaged community to”my way or the highway”.  What constitutes spam, depending on our perspective, ranges from someone plugging their business to sending unwanted porn to scraping the group for personal information. As mentioned already, what’s spam in one group is perfectly acceptable in another.
I fail to see how we can expect Mark to protect us from any and all. negative aspects of the internet with the click of a button given the huge variety of possibilities and the enormous scope of GIO. I tend to feel personally responsible for my groups and never expected them to exist in a perfectly safe bubble. 

Patti

 


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 03:30 PM, John Pearce wrote:
But waiting a week would defeat the purpose of reporting to groups.io
Not necessarily, IMHO. Flagging up too soon might well result in so many false positives that it risks swamping Groups.io with potentially innocent applicants.

FWIW we (i.e. the Group I co - own) seem to get a significant number of apparently innocent applications who never provide an answer to the Pending Subscription message, even if a reminder is sent. As in your case they are allowed to "age out"; it may not catch them at spamming but it certainly prevents them spamming - at least on our Group! Mind you as a nearly fully moderated group they wouldn't get very far anyway...

Chris


John Pearce
 

I would use it and a tool that I could use help determine if it's a spammer before reporting to you.  I have had many such attempts to join beginning with all those aol users, but that was more easily recognized as word spread on this group and the simple user name generation.  More recent attempts have been less recognizable.  The only way I have with more certainty is to wait for the pending member request to age out of our restricted group.  After 7 days have gone by it's a good bet that it will age out at 14 days.  But waiting a week would defeat the purpose of reporting to groups.io

Thanks
John


Larry Finch
 

Thanks to Shal and all the others who pointed out that this feature already exists. I’ve just updated my lists.

Larry

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:29 AM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Larry,

 > I manage this in the listserv groups I admininster by not
 > automatically removing a first poster from moderation. ...
 > Is there an easy way to do that with gio?

What Christopher said: the "New Members Moderated" checkbox in the Spam
Control panel of your group's Settings page.

With it checked you'll be given a choice of manual ("Not enabled") or
automatic Unmoderate After (pick a number).

Shal





--
Larry Finch

N 40° 53' 50"
W 74° 02' 55"


Rex Chadwell
 

Mark, I've been meaning to write and since you may be working on new subscribers.... I want more than an email address from my new subscribers. Is there, or could there be, a way to force a new subscriber to insert his/her full name?
Forgive me if this is the wrong place to ask this question or request. 


Chris Jones
 

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 02:24 PM, Scott Logan wrote:
OTOH, a tool for members to report content to the owner/moderators of THAT group could be useful as well.
I glad that you spotted that just before you pressed "send". In many circumstances the same tool can be used by owners & moderators to report suspects to Groups.io, but it doesn't cover every contingency.

More later; I'm in the middle of other things.

Chris


Scott Logan
 

I think this would be a very welcome addition as long as it was a tool available only to group owners and/or moderators. I’m afraid that such a tool available to report spammers by average members would quickly get overused.

 

OTOH, a tool for members to report content to the owner/moderators of THAT group could be useful as well.

 

Welp… looks that already is a feature. Guess I learned something today!

 

Scott

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2020 5:03 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Reporting a pending subscriber #misc

 

Hi All,

 

For those of you with restricted groups, if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature? It would filter up to something system wide. Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?

 

(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).

 

 

Thanks,

Mark


Duane
 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:33 PM, Ann Wild wrote:
Could marking a sender as a possible or real spammer be done without risking mislabeling folks?
I believe that's why Mark included the 'disclaimer':

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 05:03 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).

Duane


Chris Jones
 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:51 PM, Joseph Hudson wrote:
But you could use the owners email address to let members report suspicious activity to you from other members if they need to be reported and sent to Mark.
No. As a group owner or moderator it's your job to be on the look - out yourself; you should not rely on your members to do it for you. OK; someone might report their concerns to you, but that does not absolve you of your responsibilities.

Chris


 

Larry,

I manage this in the listserv groups I admininster by not
automatically removing a first poster from moderation. ...
Is there an easy way to do that with gio?
What Christopher said: the "New Members Moderated" checkbox in the Spam Control panel of your group's Settings page.

With it checked you'll be given a choice of manual ("Not enabled") or automatic Unmoderate After (pick a number).

Shal


Ann Wild
 

This is my concern: Could marking a sender as a possible or real spammer be done without risking mislabeling folks? A spammer in one group may not be a spammer in every group. An alert about a spammer would be fine, but blackballing a person across all groups, without moderator control, seems problematic.


Christopher Warrington
 

On 2020-05-05 at 3:53:02 PM, Larry Finch <Finches@...> wrote:

I manage this in the listserv groups I admininster by not automatically
removing a first poster from moderation. I wait until they have made
additional posts, each of which is reviewed and approved if it is real. If
they they truly belong they are removed from moderation. I used to manage
my Yahoo groups the same way. Is there an easy way to do that with gio?
Larry, I think the feature you're looking for is called "New Members
Moderated" [1]:

Select this checkbox if you want to approve the first message or first few
messages sent to the group by new members. This setting allows you to
check that new members follow your group’s requirements for posting
messages.
An option from the list to specify whether new members automatically are
no longer moderated after they send one approved message or after they
send two, three, or four consecutive approved messages. Or you can select
Not enabled (which is at the top of the list) to keep new members
moderated until you decide to unmoderate them manually
[1]: https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/customizing-group-settings/spam-control-and-moderation-settings

--
Christopher W. <lists@...>


Duane
 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 05:03 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature?
At first glance, that sounds like a great idea.  After thinking about it a bit, I'm not so sure.  One concern is that some legitimate applicants may get reported based on the patterns of previous attempts we've seen.  And as Bruce mentioned, it can be difficult to tell while they're still pending.  Maybe it would be more applicable to have an action button on the member record to report it.  I just hope that if the option is added that it won't be abused by group owners.

Duane


KWKloeber
 

>>Hi Mark, yes I would definitely use such a feature<<
 
Hear, hear! 
Please do- and reporting be for non restricted as well?
 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Steph Mathews
 

Oh yes.  Please do.  Possibly some kind of tool that would alert the group owner that the person requesting to join could be a possible spammer?  Maybe?  If not, then that’s ok.  Thanks!

 

Have a blessed day!  Steph

 

From: Mark Fletcher
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:03 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Reporting a pending subscriber #misc

 

Hi All,

 

For those of you with restricted groups, if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature? It would filter up to something system wide. Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?

 

(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).

 

 

Thanks,

Mark

 


Larry Finch
 

Hi, Mark;

I manage this in the listserv groups I admininster by not automatically removing a first poster from moderation. I wait until they have made additional posts, each of which is reviewed and approved if it is real. If they they truly belong they are removed from moderation. I used to manage my Yahoo groups the same way. Is there an easy way to do that with gio?

Keep well,
Larry

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 6:03 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,
 
For those of you with restricted groups, if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature? It would filter up to something system wide. Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?
 
(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).
 
 

--
Larry Finch

N 40° 53' 50"
W 74° 02' 55"


Joseph Hudson
 

Hi Sarah, I'm not trying to make this too obvious. But you could use the owners email address to let members report suspicious activity to you from other members if they need to be reported and sent to Mark.

On May 5, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I think that is also a good idea. I won't want to accidentally report a member who really is a member and have it be a false positive. Would there be a way maybe for subscribers to report them to me first using a form on the list, then I use that data to report it to you using that "button?"

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On 5 May 2020, at 15:14, Joseph Hudson wrote:

Hi Mark, yes I would definitely use such a feature. I think just in case if they apply with a valid email address and valid name and they start spamming the group with messages, for those of us that do not approve messages I would like to also see that we have a button that we can hit on their membership that would report them for spamming the group after they have been approved. It would be a such as approved the member, see what they do, and then report and remove that way that it is brought to your attention.

On May 5, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Mark Fletcher markf@corp.groups.io wrote:

Hi All,

For those of you with restricted groups, if I added a feature where you could report someone who had applied to your group that you thought was a spammer, would you use that feature? It would filter up to something system wide. Are there other tools I could provide to help weed these jerks out?

(fully acknowledging that this would only be one signal in evaluating if someone was a spammer).

Thanks,
Mark