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moderated Protecting the original Owner from rogue co-Owners #suggestion

txercoupemuseum.org
 



On Feb 11, 2020, at 7:24 PM, West Coast Compañeros Staff <westcoastcompaneros@...> wrote:

From extensive discussions both on GMF and here on beta, I think there are three separate issues relating to ensuring the integrity and continuity of group administration.

The first issue is protecting groups from rogue Moderators who would usurp the functions of the Owner(s). (This issue would be resolved if Bruce's suggestion in is implemented.)

Agree.  

The second issue is protecting the original Owner from rogue co-Owners who are current;y able to depose and remove her/him, or even delete the group.

Agree.  It is important to keep in mind that we address group OWNERSHIP here, not LEADERSHIP.  Clarity, not democracy should be the primary goal(s).

If the wording of Bruce’s suggestion specifically and retroactively rescinded existing but unintended powers of current potential “rogue” moderators to demote existing founders or owners, much of the second issue “goes away”.  

Where there exist multiple owners, that person having made application for transfer of of said group(s) to Groups.io or founding said group on Groups.io automatically have PRIMARY “ownership”.  

A notice to all groups of these changes should be sent announcing a reasonable period for consideration/reconsideration of special circumstances [30 days?] after which agreement would be presumed.  Since these are all options originated here by Groups.ioGroups.io should and would have final say.

I would like to focus on the second issue in this topic. I suggest that it be addressed by creating a new Role that would be a unique instance of Owner. The name doesn't matter at this point. It could be Founder or just Owner* (Owner with an asterisk). The other Owner(s) in the group would be able to do everything except 1) demote, replace, or remove the Founder; 2) delete the group; or 3) designate a successor to the Founder. Those three functions would be reserved for the Founder.

A Founder may and often does step back at some point in time and allow “new management” to prove themselves.  A group "owner” appointed for such purpose would serve at the pleasure of the Founder.  At such time as the Founder desires to no longer be involved, a PRIMARY Owner should be designated, whether such be by appointment or via other group procedure independent of Groups.io.

In the case of newly created groups going forward, the Founder would be the group's creator. I realize that implementing this Role for existing groups could be more complicated. The general principle would be that the sole Owner of an existing group would automatically be promoted to Founder. Some cases with multiple owners would be straightforward, e.g., when the original creator is still functioning as one of the Owners. Where it would be messier is when there are multiple Owners and the original creator is no longer in the group.  One possibility would be for all other Owners to step down temporarily so that the designated successor, or one elected by the remaining Owners, would be the last existing Owner and automatically inherit the role of Founder. The other Owner(s) could then be reinstated.

I believe everything here adequately addressed with infinitely less complexity above.

<topic relocated>

The third issue is ensuring group continuity by a succession mechanism for transferring group ownership when the last existing owner is deceased, disabled, or missing in action. 

The third issue, dealing with the problem of a dead, disabled, or disappeared sole Owner or Founder (the 3Ds), should be taken up in a new topic.

The goal should be to make all of this as automated as possible, to minimize or eliminate the need for the involvement or intervention of Groups.io support.

Robert R.

Agree without reservation.  I have been discussing this with Robert and he has other commitments for the next day or so, so he suggested I post my suggestion on [beta] to address this third issue.

WRB
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Charles Roberts
 

FWIW, several years ago I joined a Yahoo group with a dead Owner and four Moderators, three of which inactive.  The active Moderator promoted me to Moderator.  I petitioned Yahoo for help.  They had me set up a Poll and have Members vote. I did and I won, gave Yahoo the results, and they promoted me to Owner which I currently am in the migrated group over to Gio.  Without that action by Yahoo management, the Gio version of the group would probably not exist today.  Automation is nice, but EVERYTHING should not be done that way.

On Feb 11, 2020 8:24 PM, West Coast Compañeros Staff <westcoastcompaneros@...> wrote:
From extensive discussions both on GMF and here on beta, I think there are three separate issues relating to ensuring the integrity and continuity of group administration.

The first issue is protecting groups from rogue Moderators who would usurp the functions of the Owner(s). (This issue would be resolved if Bruce's suggestion in #24127 is implemented.) The second issue is protecting the original Owner from rogue co-Owners who are current;y able to depose and remove her/him, or even delete the group. The third issue is ensuring group continuity by a succession mechanism for transferring group ownership when the last existing owner is deceased, disabled, or missing in action.

I would like to focus on the second issue in this topic. I suggest that it be addressed by creating a new Role that would be a unique instance of Owner. The name doesn't matter at this point. It could be Founder or just Owner* (Owner with an asterisk). The other Owner(s) in the group would be able to do everything except 1) demote, replace, or remove the Founder; 2) delete the group; or 3) designate a successor to the Founder. Those three functions would be reserved for the Founder.

In the case of newly created groups going forward, the Founder would be the group's creator. I realize that implementing this Role for existing groups could be more complicated. The general principle would be that the sole Owner of an existing group would automatically be promoted to Founder. Some cases with multiple owners would be straightforward, e.g., when the original creator is still functioning as one of the Owners. Where it would be messier is when there are multiple Owners and the original creator is no longer in the group.  One possibility would be for all other Owners to step down temporarily so that the designated successor, or one elected by the remaining Owners, would be the last existing Owner and automatically inherit the role of Founder. The other Owner(s) could then be reinstated.

The third issue, dealing with the problem of a dead, disabled, or disappeared sole Owner or Founder (the 3Ds), should be taken up in a new topic.

The goal should be to make all of this as automated as possible, to minimize or eliminate the need for the involvement or intervention of Groups.io support.

Robert R.

West Coast Compañeros Staff
 

From extensive discussions both on GMF and here on beta, I think there are three separate issues relating to ensuring the integrity and continuity of group administration.

The first issue is protecting groups from rogue Moderators who would usurp the functions of the Owner(s). (This issue would be resolved if Bruce's suggestion in is implemented.) The second issue is protecting the original Owner from rogue co-Owners who are current;y able to depose and remove her/him, or even delete the group. The third issue is ensuring group continuity by a succession mechanism for transferring group ownership when the last existing owner is deceased, disabled, or missing in action.

I would like to focus on the second issue in this topic. I suggest that it be addressed by creating a new Role that would be a unique instance of Owner. The name doesn't matter at this point. It could be Founder or just Owner* (Owner with an asterisk). The other Owner(s) in the group would be able to do everything except 1) demote, replace, or remove the Founder; 2) delete the group; or 3) designate a successor to the Founder. Those three functions would be reserved for the Founder.

In the case of newly created groups going forward, the Founder would be the group's creator. I realize that implementing this Role for existing groups could be more complicated. The general principle would be that the sole Owner of an existing group would automatically be promoted to Founder. Some cases with multiple owners would be straightforward, e.g., when the original creator is still functioning as one of the Owners. Where it would be messier is when there are multiple Owners and the original creator is no longer in the group.  One possibility would be for all other Owners to step down temporarily so that the designated successor, or one elected by the remaining Owners, would be the last existing Owner and automatically inherit the role of Founder. The other Owner(s) could then be reinstated.

The third issue, dealing with the problem of a dead, disabled, or disappeared sole Owner or Founder (the 3Ds), should be taken up in a new topic.

The goal should be to make all of this as automated as possible, to minimize or eliminate the need for the involvement or intervention of Groups.io support.

Robert R.