Topics

moderated Let moderated users know they're moderated #suggestion #bug


James Homuth
 

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James


 

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Donald Hellen
 

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald

On November 27, 2017 6:50:25 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James


James Homuth
 

Ah, possibly a misunderstanding here. I was thinking more in terms of if a user sends a message to the group, they get an email essentially saying we received your message, but you're moderated. I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo, Mailman), but I guess not here?


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: November-27-17 7:21 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


James Homuth
 

No, but I do want people to perhaps get a notification that their post was received and not lost in cyberspace, since it may take a bit to approve it.


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald Hellen
Sent: November-27-17 7:30 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald

On November 27, 2017 6:50:25 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James


 

On my groups we do much as Donald does. We do not want to let members know when they're moderated because for some it would be come another reason to complain to the moderators. We have some that we keep on moderation for various reasons, such as habitually posting blank or meaningless posts, or some who tend to be a little inflammatory in their wording. It causes much fewer problems for us to keep that information private to the moderators.

I wouldn't care if something different was optional, but I don't want the problems that would come with members knowing their moderation status. We just try to keep on top of postings and let them wonder.

Dano
________________________

James Homuth wrote:

No, but I do want people to perhaps get a notification that their post was received and not lost in cyberspace, since it may take a bit to approve it.
_________________________

Donald Hellen wrote:

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald


Donald Hellen
 

I don't get any such message from a Yahoo group where everyone is moderated. No notice that the message is to be moderated nor that it was received.

Maybe you're thinking of another messaging platform?

Donald

On November 27, 2017 7:38:56 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Ah, possibly a misunderstanding here. I was thinking more in terms of if a user sends a message to the group, they get an email essentially saying we received your message, but you're moderated. I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo, Mailman), but I guess not here?

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: November-27-17 7:21 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Duane
 

Our "Welcome Message" says, "All new members will have their messages moderated (checked) before they will be posted.  There may be delays, sometimes extended, depending on when a moderator can get to it.  After you've made a few posts and we know that you're following the Guidelines, the delay will be removed.  It may be returned at a later time though if your posts don't meet the Guidelines."

For those that post on site, there will be a banner pop up at the top, after they submit it, saying that the message will be posted after moderator approval.

Duane


 

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 04:38 am, James Homuth wrote:
I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo,
It's for sure not standard on Yahoo. The only way users can figure out there whether they're on moderation is by viewing source after their message posts and searching on "approved by." They don't even let users know via an "M" badge in the group lists, as groups.io does. They sure don't get any email about it. (I'm not arguing for or against this. I like the idea of the email. And if the user posts via the web, groups.io does inform them via a banner that their message will post after approval.)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


James Homuth
 

Aha. That must have changed, then. Admittedly I haven't used them in ages, so that's very possible. Still, I've been on several platforms that offer it and I've found it useful. It also makes sense since people posting from the web are already aware of that.


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: November-27-17 9:32 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 04:38 am, James Homuth wrote:
I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo,
It's for sure not standard on Yahoo. The only way users can figure out there whether they're on moderation is by viewing source after their message posts and searching on "approved by." They don't even let users know via an "M" badge in the group lists, as groups.io does. They sure don't get any email about it. (I'm not arguing for or against this. I like the idea of the email. And if the user posts via the web, groups.io does inform them via a banner that their message will post after approval.)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Noel Leaver
 

> On my groups we do much as Donald does. We do not want to let members know when they're moderated because for some it would be come another reason to complain to the moderators. We have some that we keep on moderation for various reasons, such as habitually posting blank or meaningless posts, or some who tend to be a little inflammatory in their wording. It causes much fewer problems for us to keep that information private to the moderators.

I agree. Apart from new users, we use moderation mainly when an exchange seems to be getting overheated after a warning message on the group. Messages are usually approved quickly anyway and telling people they were on moderation would do no good and might annoy them more.

Noel


Jujube <ellaxyu@...>
 

If you've put someone on moderation, I think the site should be set to automatically send them an email notification. It should be classified as a special notice.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Homuth" <james@the-jdh.com
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 06:50:25 -0500
Subject: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

Hey folks,

I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's
the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to
moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than
4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users
wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off
initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just
being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list
here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a
member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually
told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this
long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't
believe that to be intentional?

James


 

Jujube wrote:
If you've put someone on moderation, I think the site should be set to automatically send them an email notification. It should be classified as a special notice.
I absolutely disagree. Groups are not democracies where everyone has a say in everything. Groups are more like benevolent dictatorships, because people squabble and do stupid things and someone needs to be the final arbiter and enforcer. It's not imperative that members know *how* the group is run - only that it runs smoothly for the greatest number of members.

With that in mind, I always sign my administrative posts to the group from the "list janitor".

Dano


 

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:31 pm, D R Stinson wrote:
I absolutely disagree.
Nobody has to agree on this. Sometimes I tell them, more often I don't. If Mark creates a new notice type "member put on moderation"  then groups can use it if they want to and not if they don't want to.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

The bottom line, though, is that the notice would be just an extra courtesy, since in groups.io nobody can keep a group member from knowing whether or not they're on moderation because of the blue "M" badge. The people in this discussion who think the information that a member is moderated should be kept from the member should rationally be arguing against the blue badge, and not against the proposed email notification, because the email adds no info.

J

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:35 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:31 pm, D R Stinson wrote:
I absolutely disagree.
Nobody has to agree on this. Sometimes I tell them, more often I don't. If Mark creates a new notice type "member put on moderation"  then groups can use it if they want to and not if they don't want to.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Bob Bellizzi
 

Our groups have been on Yahoo Groups since they picked up the group Mark started prior to any Yahoo Group.
There has never been a notification email to a moderated member indicating they were moderated.
Members could look at their subscription and tell though.

Simply put into the initial information message to the new member that their posts will initially be moderated and it may cause a delay.
Also that posting duplicate messages may increase the delay to approval of their messages.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Bob Bellizzi
 

I also disagree but Dano, to make a minor adjustment to your statement "Not all Groups are democracies"
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


 

> The bottom line, though, is that the notice would be just an extra courtesy, since in groups.io nobody can keep a group member from knowing whether or not they're on moderation because of the blue "M" badge. The people in this discussion who think the information that a member is moderated should be kept from the member should rationally be arguing against the blue badge, and not against the proposed email notification, because the email adds no info.
>
> J
 
What am I missing here? The badges only show to the owner(s) and moderator(s), right? And they only show when looking at the membership list or approving members? Ordinary members can't see them. Or am I wrong?
 
Dano


 

No, everybody sees their posting status in all their groups in their groups list.
J

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:18 PM, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
> The bottom line, though, is that the notice would be just an extra courtesy, since in groups.io nobody can keep a group member from knowing whether or not they're on moderation because of the blue "M" badge. The people in this discussion who think the information that a member is moderated should be kept from the member should rationally be arguing against the blue badge, and not against the proposed email notification, because the email adds no info.
>
> J
 
What am I missing here? The badges only show to the owner(s) and moderator(s), right? And they only show when looking at the membership list or approving members? Ordinary members can't see them. Or am I wrong?
 
Dano



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hmmm. Must work differently for you. When I look at my subscriptions at https://groups.io/, it shows me my status on those groups *that I am an owner or moderator on*. For the other groups where I am simply a members, it shows me nothing.
 
Dano
 

----- Original Message -----

No, everybody sees their posting status in all their groups in their groups list.
J

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:18 PM, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
> The bottom line, though, is that the notice would be just an extra courtesy, since in groups.io nobody can keep a group member from knowing whether or not they're on moderation because of the blue "M" badge. The people in this discussion who think the information that a member is moderated should be kept from the member should rationally be arguing against the blue badge, and not against the proposed email notification, because the email adds no info.
>
> J
 
What am I missing here? The badges only show to the owner(s) and moderator(s), right? And they only show when looking at the membership list or approving members? Ordinary members can't see them. Or am I wrong?
 
Dano



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




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