locked about messages from non-members
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ro-esp
This feature would make groups consultable. Of course messages from non-member should always be moderated. Ideally, the entire thread that results should be sent to the person who started it (unless a moderator prevents that).
I don't like the idea of routing messages from non-members to the owner-adress. In my experience it causes confusion (moderators don't always notice it's meant for the entire group) and thus delays. groetjes, Ronaldo -- http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net
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Ronaldo,
This feature would make groups consultable. Of course messages fromOh, that's an interesting thought. Sort-of a temporary membership, subscribed only to that person's own thread. That could revolutionize how some help and advice groups operate. Even Freecycle/Freegle types. And of course the replies in that conversation contain the footer info that make it easy for this person to formally join the group. -- Shal
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That does seem like a common use case. If the workflow around this could be simplified, then it could be group for advice groups.
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I really like this idea. I don't think it'll be difficult, because it's just like a user who is set to replies only. Let me spec something up. It'll be a nice break from working on the calendar/event code, which is a bit mind numbing with lots of little fiddly bits. A couple of questions: as a moderator, do you want to see these 'temporary subscriptions'? And what should we call these? Temporary subscriptions? Thanks, Mark
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Chris Leong <walkraft@...> wrote:
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Mark,
It'll be a nice break from working on the calendar/event code, which isHeh. Books full of fiddly bits. A couple of questions: as a moderator, do you want to see theseYes, I would definitely want them listed (and of course activity logged). Probably in the main Members list so I don't have to remember to check for them separately. Maybe with some kind of indication that they came about this way. And sortable (or searchable) so we can find them; perhaps a unique value for the Delivery column. And what should we call these? Temporary subscriptions?Perhaps "instant subscriptions". It has a more positive connotation, and doesn't imply a time limit where there is none (they're limited to a thread, which may continue indefinitely). Or "reply-only subscriptions", which is descriptive (but a bit of a mouthful). In a group with Restricted membership the "instant" member would require approval to convert to a regular membership. -- Shal
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On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I like instant subscriptions. Here's a possible hitch I've come up with. If you are not a Groups.io user at all, and send a message to a group and are instantly subscribed, you've effectively bypassed the email confirmation step and could receive email from the group without being opted-in. Do I have a confirmation step in there somewhere? Am I worrying too much about this? Thanks, Mark
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Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
I have a question about this because I am not sure I understand.
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I own a group here so does this mean that someone who isn't a member of my group can send an email to my group via instant subscription. Cherrill I've learned that being kind is more important than being right.
On Nov 3, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote: On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I like instant subscriptions. Here's a possible hitch I've come up with. If you are not a Groups.io user at all, and send a message to a group and are instantly subscribed, you've effectively bypassed the email confirmation step and could receive email from the group without being opted-in. Do I have a confirmation step in there somewhere? Am I worrying too much about this? Thanks, Mark
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Mark,
Here's a possible hitch I've come up with. If you are not a Groups.ioExcept in the case of your address being spoofed, I think it would be fair to conclude that your message itself constitutes opting-in for replies to that message. Otherwise what was the point? Messages that pass SPF and/or DKIM I think you can accept as non-spoofed. For the rest, you may be right to immediately return an email confirmation message. On a related note: "Make the subscribe, unsubscribe, and other email commands reliable" https://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/5806836 -- Shal
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Cherrill, If I add this feature, it will be something you can turn on or off. Here's how it would work (if turned on for your group): A non-member sends a message to your group It looks like a pending message to you, ie. you'll get a notification that you need to approve or reject it If you approve it, the person is given an 'instant subscription' to your group and is set to receive only replies to their message You will be able to see these instant subscriptions in your member list, and can unsubscribe or ban these people A couple of things I haven't figured out yet: There will be some mechanism to convert these instant subscriptions to normal subscriptions, which may very depending on whether the group is restricted or not (ie. requires approval before joining the group) Does the user have to confirm their subscription or not? Make sense? Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
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Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
is this a feature I can turn off the moment its implemented, because I don't want people who are not members to send any emails to my group.
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If they want to be a member, they should join the proper way. Cherrill I've learned that being kind is more important than being right.
On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote: Cherrill, If I add this feature, it will be something you can turn on or off. Here's how it would work (if turned on for your group): A non-member sends a message to your group It looks like a pending message to you, ie. you'll get a notification that you need to approve or reject it If you approve it, the person is given an 'instant subscription' to your group and is set to receive only replies to their message You will be able to see these instant subscriptions in your member list, and can unsubscribe or ban these people A couple of things I haven't figured out yet: There will be some mechanism to convert these instant subscriptions to normal subscriptions, which may very depending on whether the group is restricted or not (ie. requires approval before joining the group) Does the user have to confirm their subscription or not? Make sense? Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Mark On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
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Of course. There will never be a situation where you can't control who's in your group and what gets sent to it. Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
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Cherrill <cdjamieson@...>
okay thank you
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sorry that I don't understand most of the technical stuff, Cherrill
On Nov 3, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote: Of course. There will never be a situation where you can't control who's in your group and what gets sent to it. Thanks, Mark On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote:
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Judy F.
Mark, since all groups aren’t used as discussion groups, so to speak, I would like for you to keep something in mind. I moderate a group that is a buying and selling group.
1) All messages submitted as ads and they are pended for approve my the moderator. Once that message is approved and posts on the group, from then on the discussions is between the seller and potential buyer personally. So the potential buyer will do a reply in the group to the seller to discuss things. Same thing if they are sending the message through their email program. At no time, does that conversation appear on the group again. 2) All members are pended for approval until that member provides specific information to the group name_owner@..... I then approve or deny that request. No members can join by sending an email request where they would automatically be approved as a member. 3) All photos are posted by sellers of items they had submitted an ad for. They have to provide required information on each photo that is done by posting the photo, click Edit and then adding the information on the two available lines below the photo.
Based on what I’ve described, will groups.io allow all of this to happen without jumping through hoops to perform?
One more thing, like I’ve said I have read all of the messages and some things I understand and others sound way to complicated and technical. Not that they aren’t good ideas, but just too complicated and technical for those of us that aren’t super techs like Shal. I believe that’s part of the Neo problem now. Instead of using the philosophy of ‘keep it simple stupid’, they are providing all of these bells and whistles that a lot of the groups don’t need or want and only half work. So many of the members, moderators and owners of the various sewing/embroidery groups on Yahoo Groups are not computer literate or very little, so hopefully you are aware of this and keep those people in mind. Same thing with those that are visually impaired. That was a big issue when Neo was dropped on us. Those people could no longer navigate the groups because no one thought about that issue when they were doing their great job of developing this new Neo. (This was said with tongue in cheek. LOL)
There is such a diverse group of people on Yahoo Groups that use the groups for different things, I’m afraid that if they aren’t providing some type of input in this Beta (maybe because they don’t even know about this), that their needs aren’t going to be met.
Sorry this was so long.
Thanks for all the work you have already done on this new venture.
Judy Faulkner SW Florida - USA
From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Cherrill,
If I add this feature, it will be something you can turn on or off. Here's how it would work (if turned on for your group):
A non-member sends a message to your group It looks like a pending message to you, ie. you'll get a notification that you need to approve or reject it If you approve it, the person is given an 'instant subscription' to your group and is set to receive only replies to their message You will be able to see these instant subscriptions in your member list, and can unsubscribe or ban these people
A couple of things I haven't figured out yet:
There will be some mechanism to convert these instant subscriptions to normal subscriptions, which may very depending on whether the group is restricted or not (ie. requires approval before joining the group) Does the user have to confirm their subscription or not?
Make sense? Please let me know what you think.
Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote: I have a question about this because I am not sure I understand.
I own a group here so does this mean that someone who isn't a member of my group can send an email to my group via instant subscription.
Cherrill I've learned that being kind is more important than being right.
On Nov 3, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I like instant subscriptions.
Here's a possible hitch I've come up with. If you are not a Groups.io user at all, and send a message to a group and are instantly subscribed, you've effectively bypassed the email confirmation step and could receive email from the group without being opted-in. Do I have a confirmation step in there somewhere? Am I worrying too much about this?
Thanks, Mark
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ro-esp
markf@corp.groups.io sendis:
I really like this idea. I don't think it'll be difficult, because it'sI don't consider them subscriptions , nor those who use the feature as "members". Maybe just "guests"? I suppose the most practical way would be for non-members to have to use a slightly different email-adress to send messages to - and to somehow mark messages that come from non-members, so actual members don't reply "you could have read that here last week" - when the guest doesn't even have access to the archive. groetjes, Ronaldo -- http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net
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Laurence Taylor
On 04/11/2014 01:03, J. Faulkner wrote:
Mark, since all groups aren’t used as discussion groups, so to speak,This sounds like the "Reply to Sender" option (as opposed to "Reply to List"). Does Groups.Io have this facility? 2) All members are pended for approval until that member provides specific informationI think this was a bug in Yahoo groups whereby joining by email could bypass the approval process. Mark, do you have the means to send a prepared file to applicants, regardless of how they join or apply to join? 3) All photos are posted by sellers of items they had submitted an ad for. They have toI don't follow this; it sounds like you're using specific software to do that. Can't they just send the photo with their post? (Or are the photos stored separately from the posts?) Seconded. -- rgds LAurence
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Hi Judy, Thanks for the feedback. I'm constantly concerned about making the system as easy to use as possible, and I do worry whenever adding a new feature that it adds to the complexity of the system. I depend on people like you (non-nerds :) ) for feedback and suggestions, because I, as a nerd, sometimes don't realize when something is too complicated or techy. As I'm sure you know, one of the 'pain points' of email groups is getting people subscribed to them. That's why I'm interested in figuring out this 'guest subscription' idea, because it could help people with subscription issues. Rest assured that any feature added will not compromise the owner's complete control of their group, including who can post and who can subscribe. Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:03 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:
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Judy F.
Laurence, sorry for the delay in replying to your concern in #3.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
There is no special software that is used. Yahoo Groups has a Photos option where photos are put in albums. On the buyer group that I moderate, we create a set of albums each month with various sewing type categories and all of the members that are selling items can post photos of their item the applicable album. Each photo must have required information on each one. In order to do this in Yahoo Groups, you have to load the photo in the album and then click on Edit and the two lines will appear and the seller fills it in and does a save. Sellers are not allowed to attach photos in their ad. If there is a photo, they state what album it is in. Hope this clarifies item #3. Thanks, Judy F. SW Florida - USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Laurence Taylor [mailto:g7mzh@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 10:08 AM To: beta@groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] about messages from non-members On 04/11/2014 01:03, J. Faulkner wrote: Mark, since all groups aren’t used as discussion groups, so to speak,This sounds like the "Reply to Sender" option (as opposed to "Reply to List"). Does Groups.Io have this facility? 2) All members are pended for approval until that member provides specific information toI think this was a bug in Yahoo groups whereby joining by email could bypass the approval process. Mark, do you have the means to send a prepared file to applicants, regardless of how they join or apply to join? 3) All photos are posted by sellers of items they had submitted an ad for. They have toI don't follow this; it sounds like you're using specific software to do that. Can't they just send the photo with their post? (Or are the photos stored separately from the posts?) Seconded. -- rgds LAurence
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Judy F.
Hi Mark, thanks for the note. You definitely have a non-nerd here! Sometimes thing are being said and if we non-nerds don’t understand what is being discussed, it hard to say that will or won’t work.
It’s nice to have members, but I prefer to have those that will stay and not join and unsubscribe in a couple of days. As long as the ‘guest’ subscription or whatever the final name will be allows the moderator/owner to approve it, then it sounds OK. Like I mentioned in my other note, the buying group requires all people who join to provide the required information. That’s why it’s important that nothing happens without being pended first.
Also, I can’t remember reading where groups.io would be having automated messages that would go out at various times, such as when someone joins, when someone is approve, leaves group, etc. That’s how the potential members of the buying group get the message requesting the required information.
Thanks so much for doing this and having the beta group for input.
Judy F. SW Florida - USA
From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Hi Judy,
Thanks for the feedback. I'm constantly concerned about making the system as easy to use as possible, and I do worry whenever adding a new feature that it adds to the complexity of the system. I depend on people like you (non-nerds :) ) for feedback and suggestions, because I, as a nerd, sometimes don't realize when something is too complicated or techy.
As I'm sure you know, one of the 'pain points' of email groups is getting people subscribed to them. That's why I'm interested in figuring out this 'guest subscription' idea, because it could help people with subscription issues. Rest assured that any feature added will not compromise the owner's complete control of their group, including who can post and who can subscribe.
Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:03 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote: Mark, since all groups aren’t used as discussion groups, so to speak, I would like for you to keep something in mind. I moderate a group that is a buying and selling group.
1) All messages submitted as ads and they are pended for approve my the moderator. Once that message is approved and posts on the group, from then on the discussions is between the seller and potential buyer personally. So the potential buyer will do a reply in the group to the seller to discuss things.. Same thing if they are sending the message through their email program. At no time, does that conversation appear on the group again. 2) All members are pended for approval until that member provides specific information to the group name_owner@..... I then approve or deny that request. No members can join by sending an email request where they would automatically be approved as a member. 3) All photos are posted by sellers of items they had submitted an ad for. They have to provide required information on each photo that is done by posting the photo, click Edit and then adding the information on the two available lines below the photo.
Based on what I’ve described, will groups.io allow all of this to happen without jumping through hoops to perform?
One more thing, like I’ve said I have read all of the messages and some things I understand and others sound way to complicated and technical. Not that they aren’t good ideas, but just too complicated and technical for those of us that aren’t super techs like Shal. I believe that’s part of the Neo problem now. Instead of using the philosophy of ‘keep it simple stupid’, they are providing all of these bells and whistles that a lot of the groups don’t need or want and only half work. So many of the members, moderators and owners of the various sewing/embroidery groups on Yahoo Groups are not computer literate or very little, so hopefully you are aware of this and keep those people in mind. Same thing with those that are visually impaired. That was a big issue when Neo was dropped on us. Those people could no longer navigate the groups because no one thought about that issue when they were doing their great job of developing this new Neo. (This was said with tongue in cheek. LOL)
There is such a diverse group of people on Yahoo Groups that use the groups for different things, I’m afraid that if they aren’t providing some type of input in this Beta (maybe because they don’t even know about this), that their needs aren’t going to be met.
Sorry this was so long.
Thanks for all the work you have already done on this new venture.
Judy Faulkner SW Florida - USA
From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Cherrill,
If I add this feature, it will be something you can turn on or off. Here's how it would work (if turned on for your group):
A non-member sends a message to your group It looks like a pending message to you, ie. you'll get a notification that you need to approve or reject it If you approve it, the person is given an 'instant subscription' to your group and is set to receive only replies to their message You will be able to see these instant subscriptions in your member list, and can unsubscribe or ban these people
A couple of things I haven't figured out yet:
There will be some mechanism to convert these instant subscriptions to normal subscriptions, which may very depending on whether the group is restricted or not (ie. requires approval before joining the group) Does the user have to confirm their subscription or not?
Make sense? Please let me know what you think.
Thanks, Mark
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Cherrill <cdjamieson@...> wrote: I have a question about this because I am not sure I understand.
I own a group here so does this mean that someone who isn't a member of my group can send an email to my group via instant subscription.
Cherrill I've learned that being kind is more important than being right.
On Nov 3, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:
I like instant subscriptions.
Here's a possible hitch I've come up with. If you are not a Groups.io user at all, and send a message to a group and are instantly subscribed, you've effectively bypassed the email confirmation step and could receive email from the group without being opted-in. Do I have a confirmation step in there somewhere? Am I worrying too much about this?
Thanks, Mark
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Hi Judy, On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:59 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:
Those are called Member Notices. To access them, go to the Settings page for your group. The bi-weekly and monthly notices are going away when the calendar launches, btw. Mark
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Laurence Taylor
On 07/11/2014 06:51, J. Faulkner wrote:
Laurence, sorry for the delay in replying to your concern in #3.I follow now, thanks. -- rgds LAurence
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