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locked Thread View and time stamps

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

 I switched   to read  dates and it  will also  show   the  time stamp..



About Thread View  and time stamps

I submitted a message yesterday  Feb 5,  2016


If I click on  thread view   to view the same message I submitted yesterday the    listed  message with the   date stamp at the top of the list is   Feb  6,  2016, 6:32 pm  ( Buzz!!) wrong answer

Shouldn't it be  Feb 5th indicating I sent it yesterday and what's up with the time stamp .


If you click to view this  same  message the date stamps indicate Feb 5, 2016, 12:10 am  which is correct. 

What am I missing to understand about the thread view and    time stamps  other than what I see.


Thanks


Vickie
Duane
 

If the post was moderated, the "posting date" is when it's approved. If there are replies to it, the time stamp in Thread View is when the latest was received.

Duane
vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Duane, 


Back to this.


I had time to think and it seems to me only the mod owner should care to see when a message was approved by date and time.


As a member I think they should only  care to know when  a message was sent by    the  date and time stamp.


Your thoughts?


Vickie
Shal Farley
 

Vickie,

I had time to think and it seems to me only the mod owner should care to
see when a message was approved by date and time.

As a member I think they should only care to know when a message was
sent by the date and time stamp.
From the member's point of view though only the approval date/time is "real", in the sense that it's when the message became available to him/her.

So if you're in the message view and want to sort it by date (so as to catch up with reading recent posts), the approval date/time is more useful. If the messages were sorted by the original date/time the newly approved message might get "buried" back in the list along with all the messages you've already read. I do in fact have this problem with the Inbox of my email client, the situation is saved only by virtue of its highlighting of "unread" messages, independent of the message's date/time.

For what it is worth, Y!Groups classic was of two minds on this: in the message list approval time was shown, but when the message is opened the sender's original time was shown.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/2384859774/in/album-72157594538412310/

-- Shal
vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Shal, >>>From the member's point of view though only the approval date/time is "real", in the sense that it's when the message became available to him/her.
 A member is not going to know that  aside from that a member can view their profile to know  the date when they were approved.


>>> If the messages were sorted by the original date/time the newly approved message might get "buried" back in the list along with all the messages you've already read.
Again how is a member to know how to search for recent messages
Maybe that is when  Mon , Tues , yesterday  messages can  help distinguish the most recent message  along with date and time.

In a very busy group I have  found you have to click through the many pages accumulated in one day to find messages meant for me.. Digest is no help since it is acting funky.
Lagging is another  problem.  A mod owner contacted me Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 11:22 PM privately  and I received that message today. 

Vickie








From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2016 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Thread View and time stamps

Vickie,

> I had time to think and it seems to me only the mod owner should care to
> see when a message was approved by date and time.
>
> As a member I think they should only care to know when a message was
> sent by the date and time stamp.

From the member's point of view though only the approval date/time is "real", in the sense that it's when the message became available to him/her.

So if you're in the message view and want to sort it by date (so as to catch up with reading recent posts), the approval date/time is more useful. If the messages were sorted by the original date/time the newly approved message might get "buried" back in the list along with all the messages you've already read. I do in fact have this problem with the Inbox of my email client, the situation is saved only by virtue of its highlighting of "unread" messages, independent of the message's date/time.

For what it is worth, Y!Groups classic was of two minds on this: in the message list approval time was shown, but when the message is opened the sender's original time was shown.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/2384859774/in/album-72157594538412310/

-- Shal
Shal Farley
 

Vickie,

A member is not going to know that aside from that a member can view
their profile to know the date when they were approved.
We're talking about times relating to messages here, not members.

Again how is a member to know how to search for recent messages
If I recall correctly that was the motivation for adding the profile setting for absolute date/time. The request posited that a user would be more likely to be able to remember, or could write down, the date and time they last checked the messages.

-- Shal
vickie <vickie_00@...>
 


>>>We're talking about times relating to messages here, not members.
 When I asked  questions , it is also  about how it will affect members or not.

If I recall correctly that was the motivation for adding the profile setting for absolute date/time.

I can't always keep up with all the messages I receive in my inbox.. I  may have missed  that conversation. sorry

Where does it specify

However in profile it says
Used for displaying dates on the website.
How to display times on the website.

Where does it specify how to search for  most resent messages. 

>>>or could write down , the date and time they last checked the messages.

  Seriously? Write down to keep track of a messages?

Not convenient  at all to any member 
This is extra work  and homework to keep track of messages..
A person like me with a lot of incoming E-mail or even  say customers in business I am sure Mark will  accumulate will want to work fast.
This slows a person down .
 Not to mention if a business man has customers in his group  it will deter the customers from using the group.
Hence loss of business.
There has to be a more convenient  fast clear way to keep track of messages and certainly not left to manage it in a profile.  

It should be upfront in your face in the group  message thread permanently and in incoming E-mails, including digest..



Vickie

 









From: Shal Farley <shals2nd@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Thread View and time stamps

Vickie,

> A member is not going to know that  aside from that a member can view
> their profile to know  the date when they were approved.

We're talking about times relating to messages here, not members.

> Again how is a member to know how to search for recent messages

If I recall correctly that was the motivation for adding the profile setting for absolute date/time. The request posited that a user would be more likely to be able to remember, or could write down, the date and time they last checked the messages.

-- Shal
Shal Farley
 

Vickie,

Where does it specify how to search for most resent messages.
One way to do it, if you read messages in the group's Messages page, is to use the Message View tab, and sort it by date with the most recent at top.

One can also use the Groups home page and sort your list of groups by the Most Recent Message column. That would keep you up to date in all your groups.

Likewise, from the home page click on the "All" button under Messages, then sort that list by Date to see the most recent messages in all of your groups.

or could write down , the date and time they last checked the messages.
Seriously? Write down to keep track of a messages?
Groups.io doesn't keep track of which messages each user has read. So if you want to catch up with all messages on the web site since your last visit you need to know how far back to start. Or you can just start with the most recent message and read backwards in time until they start to seem familiar.

The same is true in Y!Groups, except that your browser might keep track of which pages you've opened and reveal that via link coloring. But that would be a browser feature, and you'd lose that information by using a different browser or clearing your browser's history.

This is extra work and homework to keep track of messages..
If you catch up with all your groups at every sitting then you only need to keep track of one date and time: that of your last visit to the web site. That's not so much to remember or make note of.

There has to be a more convenient fast clear way to keep track of
messages and certainly not left to manage it in a profile.
I don't see where one's profile comes into it, but yes, reading on the web has that inconvenience. That's one of the reasons I prefer to read groups in my email client - it highlights unread messages for me.

It should be upfront in your face in the group message thread
permanently and in incoming E-mails, including digest..
I'm lost. What should be?

-- Shal
Duane
 

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 06:51 pm, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Groups.io doesn't keep track of which messages each user has read.

-- Shal
This is under consideration, although it's on "The future?" card so I wouldn't expect it to happen soon:
https://trello.com/c/m1HaX8DC/18-keep-track-of-read-unread-messages-on-the-website

Duane
Nightowl >8#
 

Or you can write the message # if you are reading in Chronological Order, like I do.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
 

Vickie,

I have asked for Mark to make read messages on site another color, and he was considering it at one point.

Writing numbers down has been how I always read my Yahoo Groups until Neo made it impossible for me to use the site, and it had to go into e-mail mode.

But another way to know where you stopped, is if you save group e-mails in a mail client folder, I have a folder titled Beta to Read, and I move all unread messages there. Then I look at the first Message # in that folder and know how to come to the site and read from there. That's what I did today, all day, read in here based on having written the last number I'd read on site.

Hopefully there will soon be a way to mark messages read and leave unread messages another color or something.

Meantime, I have my trusty notepad and pencil. ;)

Brenda
vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Hey Breand

 How are you girl..

It's more than that Brenda. It's turned into another issue now.
I am not receiving messages in a timely manner.  if at all.
I  received yesterdays message today and it was  forwarded message   to me about a message I never received. lol. 

I believe the moderator who forwarded that message to me spoke to Mark about it.. 


I know it is not yahoo . If the problem was with yahoo mail you know gmf would be talking about it..

This started once I  changed my mail status to digest.. 

I use digest because one group has massive incoming mail  and .io  digest is not    working well.
I can't read some of the messages in digest.. it brushes the message to the right of the page and it is unreadable.

Mark is working on all of this..

I definitely also would want recent messages identified also 
Per day, date and time would be great and color to  identify what has been read already..


I need to work fast and not  use  workarounds   to view most recent messages..
Recent messages should be on the group page itself..

Ok, I am off to bed
I have an early start..

Sweet dreams Brenda aka the  Only Owl 


Vickie

 








From: Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:14 PM
Subject: [beta] Re: Thread View and time stamps

Vickie,

I have asked for Mark to make read messages on site another color, and he was considering it at one point.

Writing numbers down has been how I always read my Yahoo Groups until Neo made it impossible for me to use the site, and it had to go into e-mail mode.

But another way to know where you stopped, is if you save group e-mails in a mail client folder, I have a folder titled Beta to Read, and I move all unread messages there. Then I look at the first Message # in that folder and know how to come to the site and read from there. That's what I did today, all day, read in here based on having written the last number I'd read on site.

Hopefully there will soon be a way to mark messages read and leave unread messages another color or something.

Meantime, I have my trusty notepad and pencil. ;)

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
 

Shal Farley wrote:>>As a member I think they should only care to know when a message was sent by the date and time stamp.<<

I agree with that. The member can't determine anything about their message without knowing the date and time stamp.

For example, if the post doesn't show up for two days, doesn't the post show up with the original date & time stamp? I thought that was the case on Yahoo. That way it was easy to determine that the post was made on say, January 1st, but showed up on January 3rd.

The date and time stamp also helps members determine if they are on moderation still. If the post doesn't show up right away, but shows up in a few hours, yet has the date & time stamp on it of when the person wrote it, they know they need to be patient and wait to be unmoderated.

This helps a lot if they are thinking it didn't go through, and then post several times, the same message, trying to make it go through.

Is this the way groups.io works? Or is the date and time stamp actually the date and time stamp it comes through, not the one of the time it was posted to pending, or etc.

Would appreciate info on how this works in here as opposed to Yahoo.

Thanks,

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
 

Shal wrote:>>The same is true in Y!Groups, except that your browser might keep track of
which pages you've opened and reveal that via link coloring. But that would be a browser feature, and you'd lose that information by using a different browser or clearing your browser's history.<<

Okay, you've confused me. I thought Yahoo was responsible for coloring the links another color once you read them on the site. And they never changed, even if I deleted cookies and shut down. As far as I remember, they stayed that color and showed me where I stopped when I went back. Didn't they?

If the browser was responsible, why wouldn't it do the same thing then in groups.io?

Please explain this?

Brenda
Nightowl >8#
 

February 9th, 2016 2:37 p.m.

vickie wrote: Hey Brenda, How are you girl..<<

I took a break from everything but I'm better now. I'll do an update about it in MM.

Vickie wrote:>> It's more than that Brenda. It's turned into another issue now.I am not receiving messages in a timely manner.  if at all. I received yesterdays message today and it was forwarded message to me about a message I never received. lol. I believe the moderator who forwarded that message to me spoke to Mark about it..<<

One way to track timing on messages if we don't know how the date and time stamp works, is to test it by putting the date and time at the top of your post, and when the post comes through, you can compare the two. That was one way I determined a posting lag on Yahoo, and it's helpful when you are trying to figure out what might be causing those delays.

Brenda
Shal Farley
 

Brenda,

One way to track timing on messages if we don't know how the date and
time stamp works, is to test it by putting the date and time at the top
of your post, and when the post comes through, you can compare the two.
A useful tool for this is Levine's message parser:
http://www.levinecentral.com/mail_parse/default.aspx

In both Y!Groups and Groups@ you'll need to go through the header fields and delete the "X-" from the front of each "X-Received" line so that the parser sees them as "Received", otherwise you won't get a useful result.

In the results for a Y!Group message it is fairly easy to distinguish moderation delay from delivery delay. Groups.io doesn't show internal processing like that, so all the delays are lumped into the handoff from Groups.io to your mail service. Although that's an unfortunate result, I suspect it is actually a good thing, reflecting a much more efficient message handling process at Groups.io.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum
Shal Farley
 

Brenda,

Okay, you've confused me. I thought Yahoo was responsible for coloring
the links another color once you read them on the site.
Nope. Your browser did that.

And they never changed, even if I deleted cookies and shut down. As far
as I remember, they stayed that color and showed me where I stopped when
I went back. Didn't they?
Only deleting the browser's history would cause them to be forgotten.

If the browser was responsible, why wouldn't it do the same thing then
in groups.io?
I'm not entirely sure. It may be the color choices made for the site makes visited and unvisited URLs the same color, or there may be a more subtle reason.

-- Shal
Shal Farley
 

Brenda,

For example, if the post doesn't show up for two days, doesn't the post
show up with the original date & time stamp?
The Date field in the message header is unaltered. But what your user interface shows you could be a different story.

Is this the way groups.io works? Or is the date and time stamp actually
the date and time stamp it comes through, not the one of the time it was
posted to pending, or etc.
Here, and on Yahoo, the message you receive in email shows the origin date/time - when the sender sent it (with most email systems). Some user interfaces may give you the option of displaying the received date/time instead.

Here, in the Thread View, the Messages view, and the opened message, the Approved date/time is shown. You can find the origin Date/Time in the View Source of the message. If the message did not require moderation I'm not exactly sure what date/time is used, but it is likely to be within seconds of origin date/time.

In Y!Groups the Topics and Messages lists only show the date, not the time; so I'm not sure. The opened message shows the origin date/time.

-- Shal
J_Catlady
 

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 07:31 pm, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Here, and on Yahoo, the message you receive in email shows the origin date/time

I can also confirm that (at least at this point, unless something changes), a Groups.io edited message also continues to bear the timestamp of origin, even if the edit occurred hours later. (Maybe this should change?)

J 
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