Topics

moderated Guidelines tab


 

Hi All,

For the new Guidelines tab, here is my simple proposal:

It behaves similarly to the Sticky Wiki page setting. In the group settings page, you can select a wiki page to act as the Guidelines page. If one is selected, a Guidelines tab will appear in the group's sidebar, directly under the Home tab. Clicking the tab will display the associated wiki page. If no wiki page is selected, the Guidelines tab does not appear in the sidebar.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


 

Mark,

I think that would be great! 

What would also be helpful would be an option to automatically send out the text of the Guidelines as a separate email (i.e., separate from the Welcome message) when a new member joins. That way, the text would not have to be included (and changes doubly maintained) in the Welcome message.

J

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

For the new Guidelines tab, here is my simple proposal:

It behaves similarly to the Sticky Wiki page setting. In the group settings page, you can select a wiki page to act as the Guidelines page. If one is selected, a Guidelines tab will appear in the group's sidebar, directly under the Home tab. Clicking the tab will display the associated wiki page. If no wiki page is selected, the Guidelines tab does not appear in the sidebar.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi,

I second the below suggestion, possibly with a new email address that sends a copy of the guidelines page to members.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:53 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

What do you mean by "a new email address"? I'm thinking of an "action" from the member page to "resend group guidelines"

J

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I second the below suggestion, possibly with a new email address that sends a copy of the guidelines page to members.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:53 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Sarah k Alawami
 

I agree. I never look at any websites when joining lists, so this would be helpful for those of us who don't want to, or cannot look at websites for such things.

Take care

On Aug 29, 2017, at 9:45 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark,

I think that would be great! 

What would also be helpful would be an option to automatically send out the text of the Guidelines as a separate email (i.e., separate from the Welcome message) when a new member joins. That way, the text would not have to be included (and changes doubly maintained) in the Welcome message.

J

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi All,

For the new Guidelines tab, here is my simple proposal:

It behaves similarly to the Sticky Wiki page setting. In the group settings page, you can select a wiki page to act as the Guidelines page. If one is selected, a Guidelines tab will appear in the group's sidebar, directly under the Home tab. Clicking the tab will display the associated wiki page. If no wiki page is selected, the Guidelines tab does not appear in the sidebar.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark





-- 
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



Sarah k Alawami
 

I agree. Actually I have something on my list that will fire when the month ends. This will be a monthly rules thing on my list, and I'm strict by the way for those who are on said list. But every month the calendar will send out the email to the list, I hope.

On Aug 29, 2017, at 9:53 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 10:07 am, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
have something on my list that will fire when the month ends. This will be a monthly rules thing on my list
Same here. I forgot to add that being able to *automatically* send it out monthly to the entire group is very important to me. I'm currently kludging this by hand every month because I don't like the calendar's "event" terminology. I also don't want to have to do double maintenance. So having the guidelines in the tab, with options to (1) send to the group automatically every month and (2) send to any individual member at any time, would completely fill my bill and no duplicate, or triplicate, maintenance of the text would be required.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Hi,

Similar to groupname+help address, something like groupname+guidelines address that people can emails to and receive guidelines in reply.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:01 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

What do you mean by "a new email address"? I'm thinking of an "action" from the member page to "resend group guidelines"

 

J

 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I second the below suggestion, possibly with a new email address that sends a copy of the guidelines page to members.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:53 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Oh, good idea!
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 29, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Similar to groupname+help address, something like groupname+guidelines address that people can emails to and receive guidelines in reply.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 10:01 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

What do you mean by "a new email address"? I'm thinking of an "action" from the member page to "resend group guidelines"

 

J

 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

I second the below suggestion, possibly with a new email address that sends a copy of the guidelines page to members.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 9:53 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Guidelines tab

 

p.s. Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who don't access the group via the web.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

 


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

Another helpful thing would be the ability to easily resend the the
guidelines message to any member at any time - they might request
them, they might need a reminder, etc. This would be for members who
don't access the group via the web.
...
I forgot to add that being able to *automatically* send it
out monthly to the entire group is very important to me.
What if the message formatting toolbar, in both ad-hoc messages to members and Event descriptions, had an "Insert Page" function? This would bring up a selection dialog to pick a wiki page, and would insert that wiki page into the body of the message. Not as a link to the Wiki page, but insert a copy of the page's text.

I think that would go a long way to solving the "maintain multiple copies of the same text" problem. You could even insert the page after a customized greeting/introduction and/or before a customized signature for that message.

With scheduled messages (repeating events) it would be a bit more tricky. For one thing I think you'd want the insertion to be deferred until the message is sent. That is, if you edit the wiki page I think you'd want the updated text to go out in the next month's notice.

For another:

I'm currently kludging this by hand every month because I don't like
the calendar's "event" terminology.
By itself, the Insert Page idea wouldn't solve that problem. But maybe it could work in conjunction with an event option that turns off the event boilerplate and uses only the Description text.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:00 am, Shal Farley wrote:
What if the message formatting toolbar, in both ad-hoc messages to members and Event descriptions, had an "Insert Page" function? ... Not as a link to the Wiki page, but insert a copy of the page's text.
I like this idea but haven't thought through possible ramifications.

if you edit the wiki page I think you'd want the updated text to go out in the next month's notice.
I'm not sure I understand the problem. Why and how could it go out any earlier than that anyway, assuming you're making the changes between scheduled dates? But then, I don't use the calendar for this now (in fact, I'm not using the calendar for anything, since I haven't needed it) so I may be missing something. And in fact my idea is to make this function separate from the calendar anyway...???
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Why and how could it go out
any earlier than that anyway, assuming you're making the changes
between scheduled dates?
Here's the scenario:

1) You create a guidelines page
2) You create a monthly recurring event, and insert that page into it's description.
3) At the next month the event text is posted to the group.
4) You correct a typo in the guidelines page.
5) At the next month the event text is posted to the group.

The question is whether the correction you made at (4) is in the next posting (5).

I think you would want it to be, but a simple-minded implementation of the Insert Page function would have copied the text as it was when you created/edited the event at time (2). In effect this would defeat our purpose. Instead I think the Insert Page would have to put a placeholder into the event description, so that at time (5) the event is posted using the updated page content from (4).

I'm not using the calendar for anything, since I haven't needed
it) so I may be missing something.
The key understanding is that an event in the calender can optionally cause a notice and/or reminders to be posted to the group, as a message to the group members. The notice/reminders appear in the group's Messages section just like any other. A notice is sent at the time of the event, reminders are sent at selected times in advance of the event.

And in fact my idea is to make this function separate from the
calendar anyway...???
I understand.

My thought is that the ability to schedule things to happen at future dates is functionality that is already present in the Calendar, so an enhancement to that capability seems to me more logical conceptually - where else do you look for things that have been scheduled than in a calendar? - and simpler to implement, than creating that functionality separately in features like the Wiki.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:33 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
You create a monthly recurring event, and insert that page into it's description.
I see the problem. I wouldn't do that. It again creates the problem of multiple instances of duplicate text that have to be maintained. I wouldn't use the calendar for this anyway. My idea was that the text appears in one place, and one place only, and anything else that uses it just uses pointers. So you only have to maintain one thing. Your idea to insert that text at the moment of sending for real-time messages seems ok on the surface. But I am instinctively against using the calendar for sending monthly messages anyway. I think Mark is re-thinking the whole issue of "scheduling files" but I'd have to look back at that thread to remind myself.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Jeremy H
 

Getting back to Mark's proposal, while I like the basic principle, I'm not sure how happy I am with just using a page from the normal wiki. Over all groups, I suspect there are some using the wiki for their own, 'random', purposes, within which group guidelines (and such) would not fit.

Possibly the answer would be to have a second wiki - with the same editing facilities, etc., but separate control setting, perhaps with more restrictions on visibility and editability, as a wiki for the group per se, rather than the subject of the group: whose pages can be stuck in various places (as 'Sticky Wickis' not only for messages, but Photos, Files, etc.), displayed on a separate guidelines tab (just one?, or several? - if, this as separate tabs, or with a drop down menu?), or pulled out (manually or automatically) for use in messages, calendar entries, etc. Essentially, a second wheel of an existing type, rather then a brand new one. 

Jeremy


 

Jeremy,

Over all groups, I suspect there are some using the wiki for their
own, 'random', purposes, within which group guidelines (and such)
would not fit.
True.

Such a group can create its own "home" page for the wiki, to replace the automatic index page that is there by default. That's what I've done in mine. The group's wiki home page only links to the pages that are appropriate to the group's use of the wiki; the guidelines (and sticky) pages don't show up except in the full list of pages (which I don't expect most members to ever peruse).

... but separate control setting, perhaps with more restrictions on
visibility and editability, ...
That's on my wish list for the wiki generally. There is already a per-page "mods-only may edit" control, but I'd also like to be able to control visibility on a per-page basis (mods-only, members-only, members and parent-group members only, public).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


 

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Shal, I understand your proposal, but it definitely implies a level of complexity, both in terms of UI and implementation. I do like the flexibility of utilizing the calendar for sending out notices, but a lot of the feedback I've received over the years is that it's not intuitive.

It seems like if there's an option to send out the guidelines page once a month automatically, that maybe that takes care of the majority of what people want in terms of an automatic notice system?

So, modified proposal:

- Designate a wiki page as a guidelines page
- There'd also be a checkbox to indicate that this page should be emailed out once a month to everyone except people on No Mail.
- I'd also add additional visibility/permissions options for every wiki page, so that moderators could hide pages from subscribers.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Jeremy,

> Over all groups, I suspect there are some using the wiki for their
> own, 'random', purposes, within which group guidelines (and such)
> would not fit.

True.

Such a group can create its own "home" page for the wiki, to replace the automatic index page that is there by default. That's what I've done in mine. The group's wiki home page only links to the pages that are appropriate to the group's use of the wiki;  the guidelines (and sticky) pages don't show up except in the full list of pages (which I don't expect most members to ever peruse).

> ... but separate control setting, perhaps with more restrictions on
> visibility and editability, ...

That's on my wish list for the wiki generally. There is already a per-page "mods-only may edit" control, but I'd also like to be able to control visibility on a per-page basis (mods-only, members-only, members and parent-group members only, public).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum





 

Mark,

Yes, great. But although we can then send a link to the wiki page to (a) new members and (b) people who need a reminder, sending the link is unhelpful to people who only use email and never log in. If at least new members could also be emailed the text automatically (in addition to sending automatically to everyone once a month), that would be a great boon. So would adding the ability to send it individually on demand.

Also, I would like the auto-email to go out as a special notice,

Thanks!

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Shal, I understand your proposal, but it definitely implies a level of complexity, both in terms of UI and implementation. I do like the flexibility of utilizing the calendar for sending out notices, but a lot of the feedback I've received over the years is that it's not intuitive.

It seems like if there's an option to send out the guidelines page once a month automatically, that maybe that takes care of the majority of what people want in terms of an automatic notice system?

So, modified proposal:

- Designate a wiki page as a guidelines page
- There'd also be a checkbox to indicate that this page should be emailed out once a month to everyone except people on No Mail.
- I'd also add additional visibility/permissions options for every wiki page, so that moderators could hide pages from subscribers.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Jeremy,

> Over all groups, I suspect there are some using the wiki for their
> own, 'random', purposes, within which group guidelines (and such)
> would not fit.

True.

Such a group can create its own "home" page for the wiki, to replace the automatic index page that is there by default. That's what I've done in mine. The group's wiki home page only links to the pages that are appropriate to the group's use of the wiki;  the guidelines (and sticky) pages don't show up except in the full list of pages (which I don't expect most members to ever peruse).

> ... but separate control setting, perhaps with more restrictions on
> visibility and editability, ...

That's on my wish list for the wiki generally. There is already a per-page "mods-only may edit" control, but I'd also like to be able to control visibility on a per-page basis (mods-only, members-only, members and parent-group members only, public).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. I never use the website to read anything such as a notice or list rules and guidelines, I'd much rather have it in the body of a message. That's just me though.

On Aug 30, 2017, at 3:46 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark,

Yes, great. But although we can then send a link to the wiki page to (a) new members and (b) people who need a reminder, sending the link is unhelpful to people who only use email and never log in. If at least new members could also be emailed the text automatically (in addition to sending automatically to everyone once a month), that would be a great boon. So would adding the ability to send it individually on demand.

Also, I would like the auto-email to go out as a special notice,

Thanks!

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Shal, I understand your proposal, but it definitely implies a level of complexity, both in terms of UI and implementation. I do like the flexibility of utilizing the calendar for sending out notices, but a lot of the feedback I've received over the years is that it's not intuitive.

It seems like if there's an option to send out the guidelines page once a month automatically, that maybe that takes care of the majority of what people want in terms of an automatic notice system?

So, modified proposal:

- Designate a wiki page as a guidelines page
- There'd also be a checkbox to indicate that this page should be emailed out once a month to everyone except people on No Mail.
- I'd also add additional visibility/permissions options for every wiki page, so that moderators could hide pages from subscribers.

Make sense?

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Jeremy,

> Over all groups, I suspect there are some using the wiki for their
> own, 'random', purposes, within which group guidelines (and such)
> would not fit.

True.

Such a group can create its own "home" page for the wiki, to replace the automatic index page that is there by default. That's what I've done in mine. The group's wiki home page only links to the pages that are appropriate to the group's use of the wiki;  the guidelines (and sticky) pages don't show up except in the full list of pages (which I don't expect most members to ever peruse).

> ... but separate control setting, perhaps with more restrictions on
> visibility and editability, ...

That's on my wish list for the wiki generally. There is already a per-page "mods-only may edit" control, but I'd also like to be able to control visibility on a per-page basis (mods-only, members-only, members and parent-group members only, public).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum





--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



 

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 3:46 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Yes, great. But although we can then send a link to the wiki page to (a) new members and (b) people who need a reminder, sending the link is unhelpful to people who only use email and never log in. If at least new members could also be emailed the text automatically (in addition to sending automatically to everyone once a month), that would be a great boon. So would adding the ability to send it individually on demand.


So you'd like the option for it to go out like the welcome message goes out? I'm a little concerned about whether this makes things more complicated and if there's overlap conceptually between the welcome message and the guidelines message. With the member notices, we have them all in one place. Here's this new thing, the guidelines message, that's completely separate, yet kind of functions similarly. I'm concerned about things getting confusing. Instead of a wiki page, do I just create a new member notice, called Guidelines, that has extra options to send out monthly/special? But then, could you create multiple Guidelines pages? And then do we end up with a situation where every month I get 10 guidelines emails from every group?

Thanks,
Mark