Topics

moderated Read & Unread messages contrast and saved marking


sarah abbott
 

Hi Mark & all,

1. Could there be a greater contrast between those messages read and unread on the website? Sometimes not easy to see, especially if reading outdoors.

2. Also, after restart all messages are shown as unread. I suggest the "read" marking be retained (as on yahoo) so that it's easy to find one's place each time.

3. Also, not sure if it's a bug or a device issue, but the 'reply in context' lines show up on our computers and iphone but not on my husband's samsung smart phone, so he cannot tell on that device what is the original message and what is the reply in context.

Thx

Sarah
p.s. Very happy to have transferred our large group from yahoo!


 

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 09:25 pm, sarah abbott wrote:
the 'reply in context' lines show up on our computers and iphone but not on my husband's samsung smart phone, so he cannot tell on that device what is the original message and what is the reply in context.
YES! I've been trying to explain this to Mark (it's the same on an iPhone). What I've discovered is that the quoted text is indented, but very subtly, by exactly one character. Very hard to tell the difference, and it's not at all separated by a line space. I've resorted to italicizing all quoted text just because of this issue.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Wait, rereading, you're saying it's ok on your iPhone? It's not on mine. I'm using the iPhone's mail program and gmail. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sarah,

2. Also, after restart all messages are shown as unread. I suggest the "read" marking be retained (as on yahoo) so that it's easy to find one's place each time.
The read marking is a function of your browser history both here and on Yahoo Groups. Having Groups.io keep track of read messages is on the To-Do list, but in the "Pie in the sky" category.
https://trello.com/c/m1HaX8DC/18-keep-track-of-read-unread-messages-on-the-website

3. Also, not sure if it's a bug or a device issue, but the 'reply in context' lines show up on our computers and iphone but not on my husband's samsung smart phone, so he cannot tell on that device what is the original message and what is the reply in context.
That may depend on what mail reader app he's using. Block quotes seem adequately visible on my Android using the Gmail app:
Screenshot with blockquote

Note that the purple color is apparently being done by the Gmail app on Android: it doesn't look that way in Gmail on the web; there the quoted matter is black but indented a tab stop and lacking the line down the left side. I think these are all different renderings of the HTML <blockquote> element, and not under Groups.io's control (unless Mark were to try style tricks to override the default rendering). I'm not sure how much control the various email apps might give the user, but I'd guess "none" - particularly for mobile apps.

Your husband's best bet might be to use the View/Reply Online link at the bottom of such messages - as that's the place where Groups.io has control over the rendering style of blockquotes.

Shal


sarah abbott
 

Hi Mark, Shal & all,

Just one more point before I study the replies:

4. When messages are opened individually from the message view they are then shown as 'read' but if opened by using the navigation arrows at the top or bottom of the page they are not shown as read. (When we used to be able to read expanded messages on yahoo, they were shown as 'read'.)

Thx for all your help.

Sarah


sarah abbott
 

Hi J & Shal,

On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 10:10 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
Wait, rereading, you're saying it's ok on your iPhone? It's not on mine. I'm using the iPhone's mail program and gmail. 
Sarah: Ok, I've just been reading from the website via safari on my iphone. No issues. Super clear.

Now if I use the mail program and yahoo mail it does NOT distinguish the replies in context at all. Exactly the same issue my husband has using yahoo email yahoo android ap on his samsung.

Sarah


sarah abbott
 

Shal

Thx for your prompt feedback. So glad to be part of io.

2. Also, after restart all messages are shown as unread. I suggest the "read" marking be retained (as on yahoo) so that it's easy to find one's place each time.
The read marking is a function of your browser history both here and on Yahoo Groups. Having Groups.io keep track of read messages is on the To-Do list, but in the "Pie in the sky" category.
https://trello.com/c/m1HaX8DC/18-keep-track-of-read-unread-messages-on-the-website
Sarah: Ok, but just commenting that this "read" function always worked fine before. Does this mean that when the 'browser history" on io becomes a little more established (our group was only transferred 3 days ago!), it'll all work fine again? Lots of comments from members on this issue.
3. Also, not sure if it's a bug or a device issue, but the 'reply in context' lines show up on our computers and iphone but not on my husband's samsung smart phone, so he cannot tell on that device what is the original message and what is the reply in context.
That may depend on what mail reader app he's using. Block quotes seem adequately visible on my Android using the Gmail app:
Sarah: Thx for that. See my other note to J. Will pass these comments on to the group.
Your husband's best bet might be to use the View/Reply Online link at the bottom of such messages - as that's the place where Groups.io has control over the rendering style of blockquotes.
Sarah: Ok, we'll try this. 

Thanks again. Appreciated!

Sarah


 

Mark,

Sarah wrote:
4. When messages are opened individually from the message view they
are then shown as 'read' but if opened by using the navigation arrows
at the top or bottom of the page they are not shown as read.
It seems those pesky query strings are on the URLs in the Subject links in the Messages list.

Is that an omission from when you removed them from the permalinks and message pages? Or a regression? Can they be eliminated?

Shal


 

Sarah,

Now if I use the mail program and yahoo mail it does NOT distinguish
the replies in context at all.
"The mail program" - I'm not an iPhone user, is that referring to a built-in app?

One thing you could try is a different email app. I think the Gmail app is available for iPhone, and it works with any email service that provides standard IMAP and SMTP connections.

Exactly the same issue my husband has using
yahoo email yahoo android ap on his samsung.
So, "the highest rated email app on the market" doesn't even render blockquote legibly? Sorry, I couldn't resist taking a snarky jab at those annoying ads Yahoo's been putting on Y!Groups messages lately.

In terms of what you can do on your own, I'd recommend going to the Gmail app - especially on your husband's Android. Unless there's something he didn't like about it that caused him to prefer the Yahoo app. The Gmail app has its warts too, so that would be understandable.

In terms of what Groups.io can do about it, I don't know. I'm no expert in the use of HTML across all the various email user interfaces out there, but I suspect that attempting to control the rendering via HTML style controls would be a "that way lies madness" situation. Testing it under so many interfaces is a daunting proposition.

Mark, on the other hand, may know of a silver bullet.

Shal


 

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 07:39 am, sarah abbott wrote:
I've just been reading from the website via safari on my iphone. No issues. Super clear.
Reading on my iPhone from the web is no problem. It's the mail app that's the problem. Gmail doesn't distinguish the replies either, except by the "barely legal" 1 character, which is more or less useless.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 10:02 am, Shal Farley wrote:
In terms of what Groups.io can do about it, I don't know.
I've already discussed this with Mark offlist and he (at least initially) has said there's nothing he can do, since it's formatted correctly etc. I think he implied it's up to the app to make the distinction, if I understood correctly.

I did emphasize that the odd thing is that this is not a problem if the message comes from a group with strip-HTML (I mentioned this in the parallel thread on GMF but nobody picked up on it). So knowing that's the case, I wonder if that can be faked-out by groups.io for the non-strip-HTML groups in order for the messages to display correctly on the back end even in those groups.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

Sarah,

Sarah: Ok, but just commenting that this "read" function always
worked fine before. Does this mean that when the 'browser history" on
io becomes a little more established (our group was only transferred
3 days ago!), it'll all work fine again?
No. The history of what pages you've visited is kept by your browser.

The problem (now that I see it) on Groups.io is that the URLs in the Message list subject lines are different from those on the message pages themselves. That's either a simple bug for Mark to fix, or a mess - depending on why that difference exists.

Lots of comments from members on this issue.
No doubt.

I don't use the web interface to read messages very often, so I hadn't noticed. But I know a lot of beta members do, so I'm surprised there's not more comment on this - but maybe it has been accepted as "broken" for a while now and I've forgotten about the prior discussion.

Your husband's best bet might be to use the View/Reply Online link
at the bottom of such messages - as that's the place where Groups.io
has control over the rendering style of blockquotes.
Sarah: Ok, we'll try this.
For what it's worth, Groups.io's login feature "Email me a link to log in" is particularly handy when on a mobile device. No need to remember or carry with you (or try to type) a login password. Just ask for the email and moments later open it and click the link in it. Presto, your device is logged in for 30 days.

That's assuming, of course, that the email address you use for Groups.io is one that you can receive on that mobile device.

Shal


 

J,

Gmail doesn't distinguish the replies either, except by the "barely
legal" 1 character, which is more or less useless.
Gmail where?

As my screen shot showed, the Gmail app on my Android phone makes them distinct with three different markings: color, indent, and ruling line on the left.

Gmail on the web (Firefox on a Windows desktop) not so much: it indents a fair distance (visually looks like a tab stop) but no color or line.

I wonder if different settings or themes in the web version of Gmail might affect how blockquotes are displayed. I wouldn't think so, but it may be possible.

Shal


 

As I've said, this is the mail app on my iPhone.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Gmail doesn't distinguish the replies either, except by the "barely
legal" 1 character, which is more or less useless.
Gmail where?

As my screen shot showed, the Gmail app on my Android phone makes them distinct with three different markings: color, indent, and ruling line on the left.

Gmail on the web (Firefox on a Windows desktop) not so much: it indents a fair distance (visually looks like a tab stop) but no color or line.

I wonder if different settings or themes in the web version of Gmail might affect how blockquotes are displayed. I wouldn't think so, but it may be possible.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

ps Gmail on the computer distinguishes fine. Purple and lots of space etc. It also works fine on the iPhone IF it's from a strip-HTML group.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 4, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Gmail doesn't distinguish the replies either, except by the "barely
legal" 1 character, which is more or less useless.
Gmail where?

As my screen shot showed, the Gmail app on my Android phone makes them distinct with three different markings: color, indent, and ruling line on the left.

Gmail on the web (Firefox on a Windows desktop) not so much: it indents a fair distance (visually looks like a tab stop) but no color or line.

I wonder if different settings or themes in the web version of Gmail might affect how blockquotes are displayed. I wouldn't think so, but it may be possible.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

I've already discussed this with Mark offlist and he (at least
initially) has said there's nothing he can do, since it's formatted
correctly etc.
Yup. It looked right (plain and simple HTML blockquote element) when I took a look at the View Source of some messages.

I think he implied it's up to the app to make the
distinction, if I understood correctly.
Indeed. And we're seeing that different interfaces treat it differently.

I did emphasize that the odd thing is that this is not a problem if
the message comes from a group with strip-HTML ...
That doesn't seem odd to me at all.

The blockquote feature we're talking about is an HTML element. When a user sends a plain text message, or the group checks the Plain Text Only box, then the whole question of blockquote formatting doesn't apply.

Then the only question is whether the mail interface does something "clever" with the left-margin > marking which is the plain-text convention for marking quotes.

The email standard for "flowed text" allows the email interface to re-word-wrap blocks of quote-marked text. The Groups.io web interface goes a step further and converts them back to HTML blockquote elements.

So knowing that's the case, I wonder if that can be faked-out by
groups.io for the non-strip-HTML groups in order for the messages to
display correctly on the back end even in those groups.
All sorts of fakery is possible, but not necessarily wise.

Going beyond putting style controls on the blockquote element, Groups.io could replace the blockquote element with other formatting elements in an attempt to simulate what we think blockquote should look like. But "that way lies madness", I think.

Shal


 

J,

As I've said, this is the mail app on my iPhone.
So that's the app's doing, not Gmail's.

You could try the Gmail app on your iPhone and see if you like it any better overall. It is free in the App store.

Shal


 

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 11:22 am, Shal Farley wrote:
That doesn't seem odd to me at all.
I used the word "odd" for rhetorical purposes. I had a theory about why it was happening, similar to yours. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact in case it could be useful.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 11:47 am, Shal Farley wrote:
You could try the Gmail app on your iPhone and see if you like it any better overall
I suppose so, but I try to minimize my interactions with g-anythings....not that it's not a losing battle......
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


 

J,

I suppose so, but I try to minimize my interactions with
g-anythings....not that it's not a losing battle......
Heh.

I made the suggestion with some trepidation, knowing how attached I generally get to my email interface. Trying something else is fraught with "better the devil I know" concerns.

But at least with a mobile email app one is likely to keep everything "in the cloud" rather than local in-device folders. So switching apps should be far less painful than on the desktop or with a POP interface (where typically everything is downloaded to a local folder).

Shal